L.O.G. 109 I want to believe you

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Getting set up here, Greg. Let me know when it says that it is going live. It should be going right now. That means we are recording. So, welcome everyone. We are streaming live again to Facebook. So, for those just listening to the audio version, you'll find a link in the episode details. You can follow me on there, and it will pop up from time to time when we go live.

So, today's topic is we're going to be calling it "I Want to Believe You." And this comes from a shout-out to Sean Clemens, advisory board member and consigliere to Greg. Who, Brian, I think we'll post Sean's address at the end of the episode so you guys can stop by and see him. I think, Brian, that he likes being referred to as Clem, which apparently is short for Clem Media or something. That's the first thing that comes to my mind. But anyway, thanks for being a board member today.

Today's topic is there's a story that actually just came out at the end of January here about a former TSA (Transportation Security Administration) agent. Well, it occurred when he was a TSA agent. Basically, he entered a plea of no contest but got charged with some felony counts and 60 days in jail, 52 classes, and a couple years probation. For what he did was, he pulled a woman out of line, basically tricked her into showing him her breasts. And basically, almost close to sexual battery, I think, but that wasn't one of the charges.

But what I'm saying is, basically what happened is he pulled her out of line and said, "Hey, I can—I need to do a secondary search. Hey, we can go somewhere private." Now also in there, in an elevator going to this private screening room, he said, "Hey, you know what? You can just show me in here." He had her show him her breasts, and also basically opened up her pants, kind of around her waistline, to look down in there. And then he basically said, "Oh, okay. Hey, you know, you're free to go," sent her on her way. "Oh, by the way, you know, you got a nice body," or "You got a great," you know, whatever he said. I didn't get the actual term or I didn't find the actual quote of what it was, but then gave her some compliment and sent her on her way.

So the idea is, "Okay, how the hell does this happen, right?" How do I go from, I'm standing in line, just like everyone has to do, going through security at an airport? It was at LAX (Los Angeles International Airport), so it's a huge pain in the ass. It's a massive airport, it's super busy. You know, how do I get pulled in because this person, one, it was an actual TSA agent. So, how do they—how does it get to the point where a female is now showing this male TSA agent her breasts in an elevator in an airport? Right off the bat, it sounds insane, right? You sent me the article and said, "Hey, this is what happened." I went, "Wait, what? Like, this happened at LAX?" And then, "You know, how does it get to that point?"

So this is—there's a lot we're going to get into to talk about, but those are the basic details of the case because there's not even a whole lot. You sent me one article. I tried finding out, you know, just doing normal digging on what else I could find out about the case. There wasn't a whole lot to actually kind of have the folks at home want to know.

Really, Sean and I go back and forth just berating each other over anything that has to do with the law because we're both constitutional law experts and we love that. And then Brian and I, we share a bunch of content on human behavior. So there's probably an hour and a half of just exchange, feverish emails on hundreds of potential articles because we want to talk about stuff that's of interest to our fan base. You know, Japan, Konnichiwa, we know we love the Japanese. North Macedonia, sorry, I don't speak Greek yet, but I shall learn.

But, Brian, the first thing is, one, this is a great article because we don't—we don't need the whole thing to talk about, "How does this happen?" And that's a great question. Second thing is, let's street it up for legal one. If somebody touches another person and it's against their will, that is in fact an assault. It's an assault, and if there's some kind of other things that are required by the law, it's a battery. But this is indeed a sexual assault because the intent behind the person was sexual, demonstrated by, "Hey, I have to check your breast. Hey, I need to open your pants and make sure you're not concealing something down by your genitalia." The idea is that the intent demonstrated the crime. They may have plea-bargained down to this, but the guy takes some time.

But listen to me, you're never an active participant when you're being molested, and this was a case of molestation. He chose—he targeted somebody out of the line and brought them out. He was unscrupulous. He didn't choose just anyone, I would say, Brian. And I think you would agree with me that he specifically chose what we would call a soft target, and then exploited his power, his uniform, his position to get what he wanted.

So yeah, I would agree, and we'll get into how that came about here. But first, I kind of want to jump in and how that works from the female's perspective, from the victim's perspective, of standing in line. Like, how does this—I mean, at what point does it take someone to realize, "Hey, this seems odd?" And I want to start there because there's a lot too, because you go, "Well, that would never happen to me," or "I wouldn't let someone do that." And you're going, "Well, look, you're wrong. This isn't just someone walks in and grabs you and says, 'You're coming with me, show me your breasts!'" Like, no, this is incremental, right? So, kind of explain how that occurs, meaning, "I'm standing in line, and how do I get into that situation in the first place where I'm in that elevator and this is happening?"

So, let's go back, and that's the perfect question, Brian. Let's go back to human hardwiring 101. You were put on this planet, and your drive is to thrive in a group, not to be a solo player. There is no Lone Wolf McQuade gene. So then, in that tribe, facial recognition is huge. Tribe size is very important because you can't sustain too small a tribe with breeding, hunting, fishing, gathering. "Hey, you've got to keep an eye on the cave while I'm out!" And you can't sustain too big a tribe. Right? Those tribes have to have different tiers and architecture to grow and assist other tribes, and that turns into war and fights and all this other stuff. But if you take a look at it, Brian, you want to believe, I need to want to believe you, so we can cooperate and get the field stripped of corn and put it into the silage before winter shows up. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

I think that was a famous FBI agent, Fox Mulder, who said that—"X-Files," right? People want to believe. He must have tuned into your face, Faceman account. So the idea, though, if you think about it, all of the things that we do, we want to cooperate. And if you're part of the tribe and we have the recognition signal—the eyebrow flash, the salute—you know, that's where that turned into, "Hey, I'm not armed." Okay, everybody wants to work together to get something done.

The opposite side of that same coin, Brian, is survival. Your survival instinct, the hair in the back of your head, the butterflies in your stomach. You're meeting a person, and why is he clandestine? Why is he standing off in the shadows? Okay, that triggered to make you sound the alarm and everybody run back to the cave.

So, and I know I'm being Flintstoney in my demonstration, but the idea is, she's in line. She needs to be somewhere. She's already under a significant amount of anxiety. All of a sudden, a person in a uniform, in a place where that uniform means something, comes up and that person gives a fraudulent rap. But it's a rap nonetheless. And the rap is simple. It's not, "Okay, you need to undress here. You need to take photos of yourself."

Right, but before—before you keep going on this—yeah, I like where this is going—is that at that point, like you just said, the story doesn't—the—the, like you said there, he had to come up with, "Hey, this is why I need to pull you out of line." But at that point, given the context of the situation that she's in, everything you just described, well, he doesn't need much, right? He already has the authority to do it. Like, that's what I'm saying, is I heard—like, it's not like this came out of the blue where she was walking out of the grocery store and it happened. Right? Given the context of the situation, what he was saying made sense and he had the authority to do so. And that's part of your stop. So this wasn't something out of the ordinary. She was probably thinking, "Son of a," you know. I don't know what would something out of the ordinary look like.

So, just to understand how baselines lead into anomalies and then you have to decide. So if I come up and I slap her ass while she's in the middle of the line, or his, because I can go either way, and I look and I go, "Damn, gee, those are some tight jeans!" That, first of all, is unwarranted. It's not nice to do, especially in that type of thing, and it's illegal for them to do that. Right? But that would be so out of context, that would be—that would be egregious.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So, the idea, Brian, is that now she feels pressured. "God, I don't want to miss that flight!" Yep. "I know I'm not carrying anything." I would speculate, and follow me on this one, I would speculate this is not this guy's first rodeo. A guy or girl pulling somebody out, that's a predator. And that predator has done it a couple of times. And their co-workers go, "You know, here Nick goes again." Do you get what I'm trying to say? I think there was that kind of activity. So I would hope not; I would hope there's a larger investigation.

But now I've got you off to the side, and Brian, I give you the choice. You still feel like you're choosing. I go, "Hey, I don't want to do this, but we've got to go upstairs. There's a female that's going to search you." "Hey, here's the elevator." Now we're on the elevator and "Girl from Ipanema" is playing in the background. I'm looking at my watch and I go, "You know, we can solve it right now. All I need to do is see that there's nothing under your bra and see that there's nothing in your pants." Go. And now the clock is ticking. Do you see what I'm saying? Even a sane, sober, rational human being would look at it and go, and then lift their shirt.

So we're not faulting the victim here, and you should never victim-blame. We actually—we're doing the opposite of showing how easy it is to fall into this stuff, especially given the context of what we're talking about. And like you said, so let's go right into there because that was my first thought too, was, "This ain't his first rodeo." I was like, "You don't—you don't start with, 'I'm going to pull someone out of line and go do this.' It has to start somewhere else first." So maybe that was with a comment to a passenger or something, or, "Hey, being able to pull someone out of line just because they wanted to get close to them," or, "Like, oh damn, she's cute. Hey, come on over here!" Right? And then it—then it continues to escalate, but it always starts somewhere because he was a young guy too. I think he said he was only like in his early 20s or something like that, the perpetrator in this case. And so that was my—that was my initial read was like, "Okay, well, you don't—you don't start there." So what—what does that start with? And how does that—like, you know I'm saying, like, where does—

Right. I think a better question—no, you're right on to something crucial here, Brian. I think a better question is, if you're at home listening to this, what a sad life you must have, but thank you! Well, not a sadder, but yeah, so feel better about yourself. But listen, that's why we're here. Beat us up, we're like a pegboard, Sticks Up Menace.

But the idea is, when we're taking a look at this situation, I want you to imagine for a second that we create situations like this. If we're HR (Human Resources), if we're a boss, if we're a supervisor or administrator, and we don't jump on the little things, the thing you walk by, the situation you walk by, is the behavior and attitude that you accept. And that you can't do, Brian. So if you're there and you find out that somebody—male, female, transgender, doesn't matter in this context—it's the intent. Somebody goes, "Hey, you're looking good today," or "Have a safe flight," "Hey, you're cute!" "Yeah, I am." "Hey, you want to see more?" Okay, that doesn't happen in the workplace. That can happen in a bar. Do you remember, under some rare occasions, that can happen at a funeral or in church, but that's not a workplace. That's all about Shelley.

But the idea is, if you're going to stop—you know, you might be a predator, and the idea is, if your intent is to do something with your position that's illegal—if you're—if you're a teacher and you use that position to put a student in a situation where they think they have to say yes to something, and that perhaps will turn sexual, that's illegal. Even talking about it's illegal. You know what I'm saying? The preparation to commit a misdemeanor is a felony if you have the intent.

Yeah, well, it's wrong, folks. Right? And you always say, like you said, the little things. The things you walk past are the things you're willing to accept. But we all make—it's like we make those concessions sometimes in our interpersonal relationships and how that works. Like, "Alright, I don't want to go make, you know, the little one clean up a room right now. It's fine, it's Saturday," whatever. But it's—it's again, it's once you start that, now you've created a standard.

I've created a standard of precipitation. Yeah, and that's—that's—that's exactly. You know, actually, Prev has followed along and he just commented too, he said it as we were talking about, "You know, once—once you accept behavior below the standard, you establish a new standard." Like, that's not the standard you did. You gave away all of the things that are in print, all of those wonderful platitudes hanging on the wall. Yeah, and you said, "But in reality, this is how we roll."

But here's the thing. So what in these instances, because you're talking about, one, this guy's in a position of authority, right? Which—which is why these things become so much more egregious. It's not some other passenger standing in line saying, "Like, oh, you know what I mean?" It's—this is what their job is. So they have—they're in a position of trust, you know, in that—in that situation, in society, I should say. Right? They have that position of trust. They've been put in place with this, in charge of this authority to do this. So now, what does that look like in terms of how does it start? Right? Because this gets into—and this gets into a number of topics that people like to ask us questions about, "Hey, how do I know if my kid is the one who's going to commit suicide or shoot up a school? How do I know if my friend is doing this? What's the difference between someone just saying something inappropriate and always saying something appropriate and that's inappropriate social claymore guy compared to this guy?" Because—because I would say it started just like you talked about with those comments of him interacting with passengers when he first started. Oh, and, "Hey, now—now he's realizing, 'Oh yeah, I do have this authority. And hey, come on over here!'" And people listen. Like, meaning at some point, he—he—that all those steps were taken to get him to a point where he has a woman in the elevator, right, making her take her clothes off. I mean, so can you imagine how scared she was, Brian?

Brian, you know, my mom died recently, and the biggest thing that bothered me was I didn't want my mom to be afraid. Yeah. Okay. Now here you've got a female that is on this elevator with just this guy, and he's playing it cool, he's Rico Suave, but when it comes right down to it, he's committing a sexual assault. He's a predator. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's going to continue, trust me. All the help that they're going to give him if they don't make sure that he understands completely that this behavior should never be accepted. I feel for the female because she had been predated and she'll never forget. No amount of court time, no amount of fines are going to cover up for what you did.

And then somebody somewhere is going to say, "How stupid do you have to be to do this?" Well, let me show you how stupid you have to be to do something like this. You're a kid, and kids do kid things. Yeah, because kids think with a kid's brain. And look at the Bible about being a kid and then growing up. And so I get one more kid in my car and I turn on the rock music, you've exponentially increased the likelihood of those kids getting into a wreck, doing something stupid, smoking a J, drinking, and going out and screwing. And you're saying, "No way!" Look it up, I—I don't say things that aren't scientific.

Now we're four kids in a car from the same school and we're driving around and somebody goes, "You know, that's Tommy's house over there. We've got the music jamming." Do you get what I'm trying to say? "Hey, Tommy's got the best CD player"—I don't even know if they make him anymore—"and he always leaves his cars unlocked." You know? So one of the kids gets out of the back and they're getting them, or to steal a street sign, or to grab something from the railroad crossing, you know, make it to your city. And they grab it, and everybody's cheering them on, and they're running. They get in the car. Okay, young copper sees something. He doesn't know what he's seeing, but he sees a flurry of activity, kids in the car. He turns around, turns on the red and blues. Now you've got them wig-wags going. All of a sudden, electrochemical neurotransmitters are in that car, "Go, go, go! We can't stop!" The cop is looking, "Dispatch, I'm not sure what I've got, but I've got these kids fleeing from the thing!" Adrenal cortex is pumping up. Run, kids, roll the car! All five of the kids die. Cop has to live with it. Society has to live with it. Parents are going, "We want to sue! We want something back from it!"

That's what happened in that line at the TSA. It was a slow-motion train wreck. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And other people in the line should have called out and said, "Wait a minute!" Right? Do you have the right to resist a lawful arrest? You absolutely have the right; it's a constitutional right, it's called redress. But you can't do it in the moment. It's illegal to do it in the moment, you can't fight a cop. So what should you have done if you were in line? I would have said, "Hey, hold on a minute, this doesn't sound right." You get what I'm trying to say? The community should have come to her aid, Brian. I really feel that.

Well, yeah, but I don't think anyone in that line thought anything of it. And that's what I'm getting at, is that's—you—you keep spotting that in the moment. So what is it? Because you—you started to touch on it, and I want you to go in that, like about him being a predator. So, yeah, let's take it from his perspective. How did he end up on her—on this specific female? You get what I'm saying? Like, how—

Interesting words. But I—I—I know what you're saying. Like, how did you human on her? How did you take her out of that crowd? Okay, so first thing, bombastic people that are having fun with the people around them in line and are going to a destination like Cabo and, "Woohoo! It's almost our honeymoon!" And that kind of—listen, that right away says victim because I've got low SA (situational awareness). I'm not being protective of myself or my name or my bag. Somebody that's got their bag tag written in big bold letters and duct tape around their handle, they don't travel very often, Brian, and they're sitting there to themselves and they're reading while they're standing in line, just waiting for this to be over because they've got high anxiety. These are people that are screaming, "Do you get what I'm trying to say? Hey, listen, I want to be victimized!" I'm sitting there and I'm checking and I'm listening to every alert that's going on. You get what I'm saying? I keep checking and rechecking my tickets, I'm a little unsure. And you come over and you see that, and the first thing that you say is, "Hey, first time traveler?" He probably said that to 60 people before the one victim goes, "Yeah, I've got to tell you, it's bothering me." Boom, Brian, door opens, door number one. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Then I have to see how far I can push that. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

And it'll be simple things. It'll be like, "Hey, you're not carrying anything, you don't have to—" "No, no, I would never do that. I'm not there." "Well, you know, part of my job is I've got to check." "Oh, I feared this." "Well, listen, it's painless, it's only going to take a couple of minutes." So you've got to understand that the false empathy that goes along with giving that person the feeling that, "I'm in your corner. I'm on your side." Listen, that's how—that's how the uncle molests the kid. Do you know what I'm saying?

Right up front with what you're saying too, that goes into exactly kind of the kids' example, but from the other side of the coin, about boundaries, right? First I learn my boundaries, then I test my boundaries, and I push my boundaries. So that's what him—first he had to learn his boundaries on what some people would respond or not, or how people would react to him asking questions. Then it started, "Okay, let's start testing here." Then it goes to the next, like you said, "Alright, I got through that door, how many more doors can I get—can I get through?" And I think that's those incremental—those—it happens incrementally like that. And if you—

So you have to—yeah, you're so right, Brian. You have to be on the lookout for not the big elephant in the room, but for the small, subtle changes over time. So, for example, I say, "Oh, that's a black thing, eh?" And all of a sudden there's nervous laughter and everybody feels really bad. And then I go, "Oh no, no, you know, I was kidding," with the state of the union right now and all the things. And then I pick somebody else. Okay. Then I say something like, "Damn, that ass looks good in them jeans!" And then all of a sudden I see that it's completely uncomfortable and I go, "I'm kidding. How many times have you probably heard that from some jerk coming in?" Do you see? I have to be the master manipulator of the environment because those are the rocks in the pond, Brian. Right? They're throwing them out there. And guess what? If you have the resolve and you say, "Hey, warning number one, that type of talk has no place in the workplace," you'll shut them down and you'll identify them right away. If you don't, you risk losing the integrity of all of those great plans that you have in place to avoid violence or sexual encounters or, over here, verbal assault.

Yeah, and then, you know, I want to kind of just explain it like you did, from his perspective, from the perpetrator, the predator's perspective, because that's how simple it is for them to go through. Right? And they have time, especially in this case. Like, that's all this guy—he does, he sits there all day and deals with people and watches people in line. So he's naturally becoming good at reading that crowd for what he wants to find, for what he's looking for. Right? Someone that will allow him access, even though he, you know, already—he—he has more access than anyone else does. Right? And those—so then you—you automatically keep with that.

Well, yeah, he was already granted access with his position and his authority. And just what—what your public perception is, "Okay, well, that's some law enforcement officer. I don't know, they're in charge here. I have to do what they tell me." Right? So, so that's a good one. And you brought up something as something, you know, as simple as like, you know, you—you said, "Hey, someone should have said something, more people in line." But like, you know, you just described, like, how many people actually even saw her getting pulled out of line? And then, if so, would even have thought anything of it or even heard him? Right? So the idea is, if in those situations it is simple to, like, to—to kind of observe that and in the context go, "Hey, what's—what's really going on here?" Because normally they don't take people out of line until they're all the way up over there or, you know, because I've seen it before where people are getting pulled out of line. But those people were clear—they were that—that was a—that was a situation that was a warrant situation where—where you had the people walk up and I looked around and there was security everywhere and I was like, "Oh, there's an operation going on right now and they're pulling that guy out before he gets on an airplane."

I see what's going on here. You're traveling with me enough that you know that if somebody's doing something wrong, I'm going to speak up. And I'll speak up to the point where we lose our place in line or our flight because I'm for everybody, and I know the Constitution, I know the rules, and I know the laws. So what you're going to look for, Brian, too, is the narcissistic personality disorder. A person that has this—apologize for the dry mouth here—the person has this feeling that their position, their stature. In certain times, like when you deal with cops, they call it being badge-heavy. When you deal with certain people, there's power struggles that are going on.

And then you've got the gaslighter. And not—not the thing that you do in the quiet of your own room after a great Mexican dinner with a lighter. The gaslighter, not the blue flamer, where somebody says, "Hey, listen, I'm an expert in something." Because like, Brian, we're in line. TSA guy comes up and looks at you and goes, "Hey, do you know anything about Title 32 Section 47?" And you go, "No, Marren!" Everybody would go, "Go on!" Right? And then the gaslighter is going to tell you, "Well, that says you've got to take those things off when you talk to me." Okay, no it doesn't. What it is, your ego is being challenged right now, and so you want to exert your narcissistic personality disorder by ordering me to take, you know, my thing off in front of this group because you feel good. Well, Brian, what happens when you do that, right or wrong, legal or illegal? What happens when you do that? The electrochemical neurotransmitters in your brain do what? They go, "Mmm, oh, I like that! I like that feeling!" Yeah! To the next guy in line, "Big guy, hey, big man, need to take your hand out of your pocket!" You get what I'm saying? So it grows, and I've jumped like three evolutionary skills. But do you get how that works?

No, it—it is. And I mean, you—you get—getting into the whole narcissistic personality disorder, you can see that in a lot of places. That's—that's—yeah, those are the—I don't know. Well, it's either can be—can be good thing or a bad thing, meaning sometimes it's awful, sometimes it's easy to manipulate those people because you just—you just make them think that everything is their idea and they're the greatest in the world. But I don't—in the workplace, I don't want to get into that.

So, one of the things with this is, in general, you know, like we—when we discussed this, it was like, you know, you said a clear way to explain it is, "This is, you know, fraud." Right? And fraud can be incremental. Right? Not getting to the crime that he committed and how he's charged, and being like, "This is a form of fraud," and how that can be incremental over time and how we're less likely to notice that given this specific situation. And you even tied it back to survival and the tribal mentality. Right? So, and—and that's—I—I think that's a great one for this one specifically also because of the context of the situation of it being in an airport. Right? So now we're out interacting with society, and there are certain rules and regulations that we must follow for security protocols that are in place for just protocols with checking into a flight and getting your bag checked. Like, there's a lot of procedural things going on there. Right? And so when we go through those procedural steps, given that tribal mentality, right, I want to be a good tribe member. I want to be there and do what I'm supposed to do. Are you good? Can you still hear me?

Yeah, yeah.

So some kind of background noise on my side. Sorry, folks. So, it—those things all kind of play into—play into it. And you brought that up in terms of like, "Hey, when you get into those, you know, there—there's like some great books written out. One is like The Madness of Crowds and how people change crowd behavior." But—but like when you get in there, oftentimes someone who normally in their own environment would be more than willing to say something or stand up or—or—or have an opinion or know or look out, like sometimes, like when you get into that crowd, it's—it's you're a lot less likely because what does everyone do in those dynamics? They start looking around. When one person starts running, what does everyone else start doing? They start running. Right? But you look around and you feed off that environment so much. And since it is, like I said, such a controlled environment and one side is sterile and one side is unsterile and you have to go through that process, right, it makes it even like—it makes it, I'm saying it makes it even more difficult.

No, you're exactly right. So listen, when you understand fraud, especially humans trying to get over on another human being, they are masters of time manipulation. And I'll give you an example. The TSA agent knew that he had the luxury of saying, "Hey, listen, I don't want you to miss your flight!" Oh my god, that's a veiled threat, Brian. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I mean, if I start there.

So let's turn it there. There's this scam that's going around where they call older people, grandparents, and they say, "Listen, your grandson has been arrested and they don't want to tell their parents. So, yeah, the easy thing is, you know, a $150 bond. You can do it right now. Is there a Wells Fargo near you? Do you have a thing? Could you drive over there right now?" "Okay, now, do you have your grandson's full name?" "Yes, it's Tommy." "Oh, here we go!" Do you hear what I'm saying? And you're going, "Okay." So what did they do? They preyed upon a person that's likely to believe it, that doesn't understand how all of this great stuff and social media works like me.

Then the other thing is, Brian, what did they institute? The gift of time and distance. They said the time is going, "Click, click, click, click!" You know what I'm trying to say? So now if I play that sales tactic, who else does that? I come up and I go, "Hey, we only got three left, they're on the lot!" You go, "I fall for that all the time!" When I go on the flights and they go, "There's only two tickets left at this price!" "There's only two tickets left—"

Something like that, I'm the guy! Exactly.

I get scammed all the time, and I know about it! So if people just like you are really smart and they get scammed by it, can you imagine your grandma or your grandfather? And so remember, fraudulent people have no scruples, but they don't start horribly fraudulent. It starts with the simple thing at work. Brian, you're at work, you take a couple of items out, you've got a highlighter and a couple of pens and a yellow pad. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Then all of a sudden they're in your car and they're on the way home, and you didn't think anything of it because you didn't intentionally do it. But then all of a sudden you see them lying in there and they go, "I bet they wouldn't miss that gosh darn stapler!" Next thing you know, you've got the free stapler! You know what I'm saying? Then all of a sudden the work thing is like, "Hey, I give those, you know, eight extra hours a week!" "No, wait a minute, you don't have to right to the negotiation, I'm going to justify it." Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. So, so that's how this happens. And when you see it, you have to call it out.

For example, Brian, you know that there's people that get off on making traffic stops that aren't cops.

Oh yeah. Okay, so we're just buying cars that are former police cruisers. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, those ones—those guys tick me off. So, go on with that.

So, a lot of those people buy former police cars. But there's thousands of people, probably tens of thousands, that do that that never illegally pull somebody over. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

Yeah, just because they know, like, "Hey, I can get this Crown Vic. It's got 150,000 miles on it and it's beat to hell, but it was made to run forever and I can—I can use it and I can get it for cheap. And this is what I need." Like, that's understandable. There's plenty of people who do that.

Like, dude, this was the best thing I could afford that—that I did when we were going through that T3, that bought one of those cars. And he goes, "I live a long way out of town and, yeah, and I've got to drive this thing." And he goes, "Never been pulled over by a cop." Do you remember that?

Yes, yes.

Okay. So for that second of urban masking, yeah, that you get—many times the people will just have a regular car. And many times it's their car registered in their own name, doesn't even look like a police car. And all they did is invest in the teardrop, you know, Kojak—they used to call it bubble. They pull you over and they come up and they go, "Hey, you know how fast you're going?" Well, here's the thing. I do. They want to exert that will. Again, it's a narcissistic personality disorder. They want to exert that will. Sometimes they'll just be in plain clothes, they'll flash a fake tin. Other times, Brian, they don't. Many, many times they walk up on the car and guess what happens, and I send you those articles all the time. The guy in the car is a copper and he goes, "Yeah, hey, yeah, you know, one of these exactly. Take a look real close at this, you know, Yahtzee." But but those people are failed to thrive, the chuds that have to get off on putting you in a position. TSA guy was one genetics place away from that fake traffic stop.

Yeah, but it's a different frame. It's a different companion universe of that guy. Yeah, well, well, that's—yeah, the fake cop thing is the worst. Or—or just the, "I'm going to buy an old, you know, Crown Vic and keep the windows tinted and get the lights on the front," like, you know, the police type lights and a push bar on there. "And then I'm just going to drive like an ass and everyone's going to change the dynamic around me." Yeah, those are, you know, that just because people are thinking, "I'm going to try and pass myself off as something I'm not." I—I—you—you see that stuff and it just—that just annoys me. But—but that—this is kind of like you said, a form of that, or it's not like that, but you—you compared it to someone, you know, taking some things from the office. So kind of elaborate on that a little bit. Meaning this, like if we already talk about how just basic human development is, right? First I learn my boundaries, test my boundaries, then I push my boundaries. You know, everyone can—you even brought up like different moral justifications for their actions. "Well, I work my ass off harder than everyone. I deserve this." And—and that goes into, "No, man, here are the rules. You stepped outside of it." Now TSA guy jumped way outside the box, the rules. He didn't do it all at once. No, no, no. But meaning, right, the pen guy just took a small step outside. Right?

Now I disagree, but—

But—but you—no, no, but go on because that's what I want to say, is like, some people are willing to go, "Well, but it's just the pen." And—and maybe for that person it is just the pen, they're never going to take anything else after that.

Yeah, so let's get this right out in the air right away. So years ago, working the road, there was this crew that was breaking into places that didn't have an alarm, kicking through the steel-studded walls until they got to the place that did have the alarm because the alarm was for front door breakage and glass breakage, not for coming in through the side from the drywall. Do you get what I'm trying to say? So those guys were all experts in pulling floor safes. So they would go around to these fast food joints, pull the floor safe, and the petty cash that's there to open is always a couple hundred bucks to a couple of thousand bucks depending on the business. So these guys are really good at what they're doing, and I used to profile crews so I could get ahead of them and catch them in the act.

So I'm on a caper that somebody goes, "Hey, might be interested, it looks like this caper," and it was at a very famous restaurant chain. And as I'm there, the uniform that called me is walking around with his partner and he's got a handful of pepperoni and a handful of the mozzarella cheese to make a pizza, and he's eating it like a softball, right, as he's walking around inside the place and he's answering my question, "When did you get the call? Was there any cars in the lot? Did you see anybody leaving?" Everything else. And I go, "Hey, where'd you get that?" And he goes, "Right over there." And it was right behind the counter, you could see all the stuff that was set out for the prep had set it out for the next morning. And I go, "Okay, do you understand you're a felon right now? Do you understand you're shoplifting? You're—you're eating this stuff. You don't have that right. Your access was here because this is a crime scene."

Yeah, but I'm a cop.

I apologize. I'm not going to be able to stop that. So bear with me, folks, it's live. And so what I told the guys, "You're just as bad as the criminal that broke into the place." And I got dressed down and talked to by my administration, "How dare you do that?" Brian, when you steal something from work that's not yours to steal, you're wrong. And just because it's a small item—okay, so I walk into a 7-Eleven and there's a pack of gum. How much is a pack of gum on the counter? It's under a bucket. I put it in my pocket and I walk out. Listen, I might as well take the whole store now. Somebody's going to go, "Oh, it's not the same!" And people don't look that—listen, if you look the other way for that, you're going to start looking the other way for other things. When—when you start allowing this moral turpitude to erode.

And here we're talking about something that's so egregious, Brian, a TSA person using their official authority to do something. And trust me, it happens all the time. And somebody's going to go, "I told you, all those cops—" First of all, TSA ain't cops, neither is Homeland Security. Second of all, just because you're not—that's not your coach. We are getting on a plane tomorrow, so let's go. Yeah, I get it, you're right. I just—we're never coming home, folks. That's a long drive for me. So don't—don't be an ass because we know that 7-Eleven clerks are bad people and so are librarians and so is a person at Jamba Juice. But it's 0.1% of the total people that work there. But you have to be suspicious. If I'll do that, if I'll fill my bag with, you know, "Hey, it's a trick-or-treat from work," then what else am I willing to do, Brian? And that's the very people that when I want to commit a fraud, big-time insider threat, that's what I'm going to seek out, isn't it?

Yeah, you know, if you hold the door for me and don't check my ID the first day, and then you do it the second day, by the third day, I'm coming in with a body bomb. So it works. So that goes into policing our own, right? Meaning each other, our friends, our family, our community members. I don't care what it is, your co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or an office like your example. So, sorry. Let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah. You know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was—so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers, and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is, like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah.

It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line.

Yes. Right.

Right. So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind" or "criminal intent"), what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have this group of 10 people that we choose from.

Now let's change that just a little and say, "When does the plunger in the ass come in?" Well, it doesn't come in right up at the front. What it does is the person that was the bully in the group goes, "Hey, you know what, it was tougher on me. I was a plank holder and I had it harder. So let's make them shave their heads." And then the other guy goes, "Well, shaving their head's a good idea. Let's put Ben-Gay on their balls or, you know, in their underwear." And then it spins out of control. You know what that is, Brian? That's kids being broken, children, even as they grow up, the immaturity, you know, the EQ (emotional intelligence). Right? But who is going to go in and stop and be the voice of reason? Now it's groupthink, Brian. Now you're afraid to say something because you're thinking, "I don't want to be on a line." But Ben-Gay sounds horrible, Brian. You've got to say something to be a human in that environment. Okay, I want to fit in, but I also want to believe you. I want to believe that you're just like me, that you're a guy that's going to take care of me, or you're a female that's going to take care of me. And if we're in a society with no rules, if we don't follow the rules, there's no gray area, it's black and it's white. Are we doing the right thing, are we not? What's my intent? If my intent is to get ahead on your shoulders, on your back, then I'm a sociopath. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Psychopath, and I'm using you as a vaulting mechanism.

Yeah, and you—you brought up the narcissistic personality disorder and all that. You see narcissism in people, and then sometimes it's psychopathy, where sometimes it's just a lack of—lack of empathy too. I mean, right? You know, you might—there's a fine line. Yes. Right. Right.

So you just described the situation because there's a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths that work in the business world every day. They're never a serial killer and never committed an assault.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

But—but—but their mens rea, what they're thinking, what they're planning, is always nefarious. "Yeah, I don't care about Jim and his family. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to move into that apartment." That's just as bad. But—but because we're American, we think that's good competition. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We think, what was the 1980s Wall Street film? "Greed is good." Come on. Right? Right.

Well, I think—I think, well, that's—that's kind of—that's kind of changing now with a lot of—yeah, like now that they have all that money, they went like, "Oh, wait, what are we," you know? What if that—that is, but I—I get it because that these are all kind of versions of what we're talking about. Some more extreme than others, some at different levels than others, some at, you know, greater in terms of the type of crime. But—but it all falls in under, you know, the same umbrella or the same bucket, right? Of the same thing, of, you know, like it's why you use the term at the beginning, and I thought it was perfect because you said fraud. And like, "Well, that's a good term because, yeah, that could be a Ponzi scheme billionaire bank fraud, or the TSA agent taking this woman out of line to, you know, to—to, you know, forget all the charges they were, but—but what he did to her, same thing, was false imprisonment and making sure to take her clothes off in front of him." Like, that's—that's fraud.

So, so they actually—kidnapping, taking a person from one place to another. Just because she didn't know it, Brian, that doesn't mean it wasn't a felony. Right?

Yeah. So, so that—that gets into—so again, it kind of goes back to the, "You know what I walk past is what I'm willing to accept." But then that's—you see organizations with the quote on the wall and the values, ethics, you know, the thing you've got to sign. But, and some are better. Some live by it for real, actually. And some just—it's just a quote on the wall. And I think that that comes down to that that's your personal, you know, that's your personal view on the world. That's like you said, you brought up how you're raised, how you grew up. But—but the idea is, you know, why you want to continue living that or holding people with standards is, you know, I—I'm never going to get rid of people that commit fraud or do these things, but I—I will stop them from doing it around me. Right? Because you know it, and you've had experiences, I've had experiences where you said something in that—in front of everyone and you drew the line in the sand. Now, does that person change their behavior? Probably not, maybe just in front of me. But—but—but that is that—is that a small win? Yeah, it is, because then they know, "Well, I can't get away with that here."

Well, that's a perfectly—that's why we always go back to, right? People teach you how they want to be treated. You teach other people how you want to be treated by the words you use, the clothing you wear, your actions, you know, your statements, what you choose to say, what you choose not to say. All of those things play into that and we read that. But—but this is a perfect example of like where—because I brought up the policing our own earlier, right? The whether that's personally ourselves, our family, our community, our friends, our co-workers. Right? So, co—like you, all these examples, kind of most of them are involved something around like an office, whether that's your office is working at the airport or office, like your example. So, sorry, let's—let's—let's do that.

Yeah, you know, thanks to everybody. But today, I'm following around, looks like, "Hey, welcome to the no-fly list," he just said. So there we go.

No, but—but well, maybe I shouldn't go down this path, I was about to. But—

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But for a penny and for a pound, it was so it—but—but speaking to his co-workers and—and you know, you just framed it, I think, well, it's not unlike the, "I know my co-worker takes a package of pens every Friday," or whatever, or a printer cartridge or something. Whatever it is. Like, "I know that they do." Like, how is that the same as, you know, those other agents who knew, "Well, I've seen him do this," but, "You know, I was just assuming that business brown." You're right, somebody should have done it. But that's what I'm saying, is that how does that happen? Because now those—some of those co-workers are probably going like, some are going, "Well, you know, yeah, I guess I saw him do this." Some are going, "Damn, I missed everything!" Some are probably going, "What the hell just happened? How did I not see that?" You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's the whole thing, is that some people won't be like, "Dude, I didn't think he would ever do something like that!" Right? How many times have you heard that, or, "I never thought they would do this," or, "Well, no, I didn't think that it would ever go that far." And so what was that in there? And how—how did you—how do you identify that right there to—to know which is him just doing his job, which is him going too far, which is him, "Oh, this is definitely escalating," because that's in that gray area that people talk about, right?

Because it's something like this. Don't say gray area, but I hear you. Yeah. It's—it's where it—that, well, it's not a gray area, but it can be if I don't—I—I maybe I'm just second-guessing myself, right? Maybe I'm questioning if I don't have clearly defined rules of right and wrong, if I wasn't brought up right at home, if I hung with the wrong crowd.

Brian, I'm telling you right now that broken humans do these type of things. The regular human might get in a trick bag once in a while, but you and I don't have gray area. You and I, the entire time I've known you, you've got the best moral integrity of anybody. Yeah, I'm going to do something stupid, but I'm not going to do something, you know, immoral, illegal, unethical. So there's your line. Was this a mistake or did they have nefarious intent?

And let me give you an explanation of that. Okay, I talked earlier about those kids that were, you know, even a couple of things out of a car just to be dicks, and they drove and the car rolled over and there's five dead. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework, everybody. Listen to me right now, one of those happened in every 50 states last year. Yeah, with four or five kids in a car and they're all dead, and it'll happen again next year. Why? Because that's how we're hardwired. And so that's where the human behavior pattern recognition comes in.

Now let's do the analysis, Brian. Hazing. So I don't know how hazing started, but hazing started from the bravado, from a bully, and then the group thought, "Hey, I've got to be a bully as a gating mechanism to get in the group." So all of a sudden you and I stay and we say, "Okay, so Shelley's cousin is—has been studying and he's a PhD, Brian, and he wants to get in our group on the board." Okay, so the very first thing we do for our board members is, "You've got to submit this, you've got to do that, you've got to write that, you've got to publish this, you've got to, you know, this—this dog and pony show plus"—and I call it a dog and pony show because it is rigmarole, but it's to an end—"You've got to be a combatant, you've got to do this." And then, Brian, now we have