L.O.G. 126 Air Rage

Hello, and welcome to the video version of The Human Behavior Podcast. I'm Brian Marren, the host and creator of the show. As always, I will be joined by human behavior expert, Mr. Greg Williams, who the show is affectionately named after. On the show, we discuss different topics through the lenses of what we call human behavior pattern recognition analysis. If you'd like to find out more about what that is, please check the links in the episode details and go to our website to learn more. Please don't forget to follow us on social media; the links are also in the episode details. And hit the like and subscribe button to help support our work. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you enjoy the show.

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All right, Greg, let's just go ahead and jump in and get started today. Yeah, it's been a few weeks since it's just been me and you on here. We've had some great guests, so it's good to get back and bat around a topic today, specifically being air rage, right? Coming to an airline near you. We've had many discussions about about I guess air rage and things that happen on planes. And you've said for a couple years, "Hey, we're going to see a homicide on an airplane soon." And we kind of thought 2020 was going to be it, right? It was going to finally hit. But I think due to the pandemic and the decrease of travel and the rate of number of people flying, all that stuff, incidents kind of — I don't know if incidents decreased, but I think it leveled off a little bit because now people were agitated who had to wear masks and rules and all this stuff.

But now, fast forward to where we're at, it's now summer 2021. Things are opening back up again. The country's moving about, people are getting out there, increasing air travel. I know I even noticed it earlier this year when we were doing some travel, and how it was like almost back to normal at some of the airports we went through, versus how it had been all of 2020. But with an increase of people traveling, there's still obviously a mask mandate on airplanes and all these things. And so we've seen a lot of stuff on the news, especially recently, everything from fistfights on a plane, people tackling each other, fistfights in the terminal, all kinds of crazy, crazy stuff. So, that's kind of going to be the topic today about how these things occur. But I wanted to start with a little bit of historical context, unless you — did you want to get some comments in before I keep rambling?

I love it, Brian. I think this is a great topic, and I think I think your assessment is exactly accurate because you and I have flown for the last 18 months. So we've seen it before COVID, during COVID, and now hopefully post-COVID. And I'll tell you what, I got roped in, and I know you probably did as well. The airlines contacted me. You know, I used to have a million miles on Delta, and then I had to switch to United after the government work. And then United says, "Hey, listen, for, you know, 35 bucks, you get an upgrade to first." And I go, "I've never seen first. Let's try it." And you know why? Because they give you nothing. There's nobody on the plane anyway. It didn't matter. You could literally choose your seat. You weren't even going to get a water. They weren't even going to acknowledge you. They gave you the little packet with a pair of tongs at the beginning, and that was it, baby. It was austere, it was spartan, and there was nobody else around. So, Brian, that's why our prediction — and I still hold by that prediction — that the dam is going to break, and it's going to be a homicide. And that's going to be too late. So what can we do to protect it?

But an important, important term there to remember: homicide. Because that that goes into that that could mean a number of things, but someone will die by the hands of another human being on a plane. So we'll jump into that. But actually, kind of historical context of stuff happening on planes, there was actually an interesting kind of number I found here that between 1968 and 1972, 130 American planes were hijacked. So that was kind of the golden age of hijackings, right? So you had people standing up on a flight, but there was obviously there was basically no security at airports. You could just walk right in, you could go up to the terminal, you're up to the gate, you can kind of get on a plane. So it was a little bit easier to do. There was a security was lacked, but a lot of times it was just people, "Hey, I want to go to Cuba," or something like that. There was all these different ways to approach it, all kinds of different ideas before all these security measures were put in place in the early '70s. And even then it wasn't that — you could still go and like walk someone to the gate even right up before 9/11. Sure, you could do that. But you had people, one of the ideas I think from someone I had read was that they had thought about building an airport like in southern Florida near Miami to confuse people thinking, "Oh, you're taking me to Cuba," and they could land there and just detain people, which I thought was hilarious.

Exactly. I actually applied for the role of fake Castro because I was going to come out just in case. I was younger, a box of cigars, the cool thing about it, the camo uniform, the olive drab uniform on it. And we saw it on the news all the time. So that's a good way, that little bit of a right-of-bang thinking on that one. "Hey, I got an idea. There's hijackings. Let's build a fake airport!" Like, not, "Hey, how do we prevent these?" But anyway.

That's — I just wanted to throw that out there for some historical context. But there's a lot of issues, right, when it comes to air travel because there's higher levels of anxiety for a number of different reasons. We can get into all behavior behind that. But there's also some legal differences on an airplane there are in other types of public transportation. Because remember, folks, flying on an airplane is — it's like a bus in the sky. It's public transportation. You are not, you know, there's — unless you're chartering your own flight, which you can do, and flying on a private jet, you are on a bus in the sky. So I think keeping it that sort of analogy works to put some of it in perspective. But can you give us a little bit of like the the legal differences, what you can and can't do?

Yeah, so simply, Brian, where you live, and when we had to commute back and forth to like Penn, Camp Pendleton, you know, there was a border check station. That's well inside the border of the United States. So there's a special jurisdiction with borders, okay? And there's federal law that protects borders well inside of the United States and gives the law enforcement officers a tremendous, a wide, broad list of things that they can do to you that they couldn't constitutionally otherwise do, legally otherwise do. So aircrafts are the same way, Brian. There's a special aircraft jurisdiction, and you have to understand that just because you bought a ticket, that guarantees you nothing. There's a whole list of rules that go along with that.

So, for example, the CDC's updated guidance for the fully vaccinated people continues to require every one of us that when we're on an airplane, we have to wear a mask, okay? So you you go, "Yeah, but it's not sewn on often, so I'm not wearing the mask." And you're arguing with the flight attendant. But interfering with the duties of a crew member or a flight attendant violates federal law. So what you just did is you got yourself in the trick bag, and you could lose your job or get blacklisted by the airline.

Yeah, be put on a no-fly list because you're stupid enough not to just put on the mask and sit and do what you're told.

Listen, Brian's assessment of the bus is hugely important. When you get on the bus, you don't sit there and decide where you're going to sit and move other people and arrange it, "You over here, I'm going to sit there, and here's where my bag is." You shut up and you wait, you know, "Bing, bing," and it's my stop. An airplane is very similar to that because you're talking now they bumped it up. Remember, it was 25,000 per offense that they could charge you and fine you. The FAA bumped it up to 37,000 per violation. Now what that means is if you're an unruly passenger and you interfere, and you interfere with the flight, and you interfere with another passenger, you get what I'm trying to say, Brian? Those are each 37 grand. Plus the fact that you're going to get bounced off the airline, and then you're going to be on video. I'll tell you what, in my day, back in the jack the hijack and the lojack days, you didn't get on video very often. Right now, you're going to be center stage, and everybody you work with and everybody in America is going to be on "Funniest Home Idiots: Unruly Passengers."

No, and that's that's a good thing to layer on the legal stuff for one. Obviously, we give up certain freedoms and civil liberties in certain situations, just like that, when you're in public transportation, stuff like that, that now you're that's that's regulated by the FAA. So now you're talking about different federal offenses, and it's a slippery slope from there. So that adds to already the sort of stress and anxiety of flying. And people, even like us, we fly all the time, but there's still stress and anxiety involved, even if we don't even realize it. No, I'm not, you know, even even though, you know, airline travel is the safest thing, one of the safest modes of travel. I mean, you're more likely to die on the way to the airport than you ever are on a, you know, get in a plane crash. But either way, you give up so much control, right? When you're in a vehicle driving yourself, you're in control of that vehicle. When you're in an airplane, you have absolutely no control. Plus, you have to go through all these screening procedures to get in for security procedures. So, you know, you're getting half undressed, they're going through your stuff, you know, that adds the feeling of someone invading my own personal space and privacy. And that's that's that's happening, that's a normal reaction.

Now you've got this mask mandate that everyone still has to wear, which is which is annoying and people don't want to do it, right? So that adds to it. Then you've got, you know, just kind of this little bit of anxiety undertone, you know, maybe just out there because of it's a global pandemic. And there are so many rules in an airport and so many things you have to consider, and it really starts to raise that level of anxiety a little bit. Now, what's what's the number one thing people do in airports? Is consume alcohol, right?

That's true.

So, like now you now you add alcohol to that mix, and it's actually it's really you're throwing all of the ingredients into a bowl, and what's going to come out of that could potentially be very bad because everything's getting mixed up, right?

And I think that we have some misconceptions, too. But before we get to the conditions that create that, there's a misconception. One, in a normal situation, even drunk driving, in an accident, in a fight on the street, the courts have diminished mental capacity and alcohol as being affirmative defenses in certain standards, right? The FAA says diminished capacity and voluntary intoxication are not defenses. You can't use those. So people don't know that. You think that, "Hey, listen, if I'm a little out of line, Air Marshal's going to come up and they're going to tell something to me." Yeah, listen, Air Marshal's there for terrorism. He's not going to reveal himself for a fight on a plane; that's not their job, his or her job. Then you say, "Okay, well, the crew is going to certainly handle this." Brian, we're on planes where there's 500 other passengers, 300 to 500, every plane in a tube, that crew is going to be overwhelmed virtually immediately, right?

And then you talk about the alcohol. First of all, the bars and alcohol and wine served in the concourse, from what time? Six in the — yeah, whenever it opens, right?

I refuse to answer that question without counseling.

You and I know that we've we've had our demons before, but you know, instead of breakfast, you can forgo that. Yeah, and you can point to anything behind the bar and say, "Put that in an orange juice glass and keep them coming." There's no rules.

You can get like, no rules. It's perfectly normal to get drunk at 6:30 in the morning at an airport. Like, it's it's socially acceptable there.

Yeah, it really is. So, I just want to make sure that we understand that. And listen, folks, you're you're going, "Okay, I get the point." No, you don't get the point if you've never been bombed out of your gourd at 6:30 in the morning and then transported from sea level to 30,000 feet. Remember, a mile is 5,280 feet. You get what I'm trying to say? So, do the math. You're talking about five or six miles above the earth. That changes your metabolism. So, Brian, we're talking about sociologically, you're in an environment that you don't expect. We're talking about physiologically, that your body's undergoing changes. And we're talking about psychologically, you've got an increased level of anxiety. So, scientifically, that's the trifecta of horseshit that's coming your way.

No, it absolutely is. And you that's why I said it's that it's that recipe built in. And sometimes even even with we don't even realize it, or we think we're fine, and then now you're running late. And even just, "Oh, I got to get to the airport this amount of time. I got to be there, you know, two hours before my flight." And exactly that was honestly set in by the people that manage the airports because the longer you're in the airport, the more likely the more money you're going to spend. It really has nothing to do with being on time. You just have to be there, I think if you're checking a bag, that airline wants you there within an hour before your flight or something.

But think of this, Brian, what you just brought up is an excellent point. And look at the other side of the same coin. So you're there at an airport and you've got this free time, so you're, "What, it's a little special. I'm going to have a drink, and then I'm going to sleep on the plane." On the other half of it, why are you at the airport? Because you're flying. Why are you flying? You're flying for a vacation: psychologically high-stress incident, okay? You're flying for business: psychologically high-stress incident. You're flying for a death in the family, you're going to a wedding. You know what I'm trying to say? Nobody just flies to say, "Hey, let's go."

Yeah, I could take a flight to Denver, I worked there, you know. No, no. But yes, I mean, I wouldn't say a vacation is a psychologically high-stress incident, but it's that now you're in that same mode of, "Oh, now I'm in party mode." So I'm not paying attention to what's going on. I may be having those drinks, so it's the same diminished capacity, initial mental capacity sort of.

So let me add, let me add high stress. So, Jonathan is a small airport, right? Yeah, it's a regional airport that goes to different locations. And most of the time I have to fly to I have to drive to Albuquerque or Montrose or Denver to take a flight because something's happened in Gunnison. Now, Gunnison, they have the big W, "Welcome to Gunnison," you know, it's for a W for the state western. Says the G on the other mountain is for "Goodbye." The idea is that if you can't see the W, they won't fly because that means that you're there. Yeah, so we've got storms that come in, we've got all kind of weather and stuff. So, and now we have a new air carrier, and I'm not going to get sued here, but they're running in like the high 40% of getting you to Denver, which means that flights are canceled more than half the time. Yeah. Can you imagine that your flight is canceled or delayed, and now you all of a sudden, Brian, you're going to Hawaii, let's say, and then you miss that next flight, or you're going to — that's what I'm talking about with that anxiety where the psychological stress adds up quickly. And then they come on and go, "Hey, ladies and gentlemen, for this," and then when you hear that at an airport, you never equate that with something good, do you? You know what I'm saying? And what do the airlines say? "Hey, we're looking for any standby pass or if any people want to take a later flight." Okay, Brian, those things right there, I think are enough to be a hot-button issue where now you're doing the, "Oh my gosh, I knew." And Brian, in my lifetime, you could smoke on a plane, right? You're still a little kid, you probably — your dad probably put a cigarette on your head. You hear what I'm trying to say? But we could still fly. Now add that to that cramped area and chain smoking anxiety. You know, buddy?

Well, this is why you see an increase of like, you know, the you saw the videos of, I think, it was the most recent one maybe down in Miami or somewhere, it doesn't matter, but where there was like fistfights going in the terminal before people even got on the plane. Yeah, I mean, this was, you're not even on the plane yet, right? And each one of these areas now, and people are starting to to literally fight each other. And you know, as we always say, the problems problems don't get easier at 30,000 feet. Remember that.

Write that down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that, and you may need to use that one. It's a good line to use when you want to get a gate agent's attention. We can we can get to that. But the idea is is all of those things add on to each other. So now you've got the stress, now you're in this locked in this tube, right, with all these people you don't know. And one little thing can already start to get — could be a contributing factor to why these things escalate. Now we're seeing more. The most recent one is, you know, the people I just — the guy stood up that I think the pilot even said, "I'm bringing the you know, I got to land this plane, do whatever you want to this guy." Exactly. Like he asked the passengers to chip in and do whatever it takes to bring the person down. Once once you open that door, there's no shutting it. And now what's going to happen is because most of these incidents that occur, it's usually alcohol related, drug related, you know, some sort of emotional or mental health issue of why people become unruly on a flight, or those three combined, right? And now you have people. Passengers are now expected to, especially after 9/11, people are more likely to get involved and do something. Well, you know, there's you you may be thinking you're helping the situation, and now you end up killing this person who got up. I mean, there's there's all of these second, third-order effects that could happen, and it's really, really chaotic up there because you don't know. You're just trying to help out a flight attendant with an unruly passenger. Now this guy dies while he's under restraint because your knee's been, you know. I mean, these things can can can easily escalate.

Lewis Black, you remember Lewis Black, the comedian? Yeah, he was talking about the middle seats and who designs aircraft and for the comfort. And he says he thinks that there was a guy with scoliosis that worked at the FAA that was sitting in the middle seat and said, "This is amazing." But listen, Brian, what you just gave me is you gave me a recipe, okay? So you've got mental health or alcohol intervention or drug intervention. Let's put that on this hand. And then let's put you're in the middle seat, you got bumped for first class because a plane type changed. You get what I'm trying to say? Now you have an on-ground delay because they have to unplug the — and you're going to miss your upcoming flight. Brian, these things don't exist in a vacuum when you're in an aircraft or on a jetway or on the airplane waiting. What happens is they start interceding with the others, and now they intertwine. And all it takes is the right match at the right time. And the two major types of aggression are proactive and reactive. Yeah. So now all you got to do is the proactive guy says something, "Boy, ain't this the," "Hey, why don't you kiss my ass," right? And then what do you got? You know, now now historically, Brian, scientifically, the the competition for resources is the main pressure for the evolution of violent aggression, right? That's scientifically so simple to understand. But now what have we created? We have created a condition on a plane or in a concourse or on the ramp. Do you — when was the last time you were at an airport and everything went smoothly? Now they've got the first-class passengers to the left and this and that. And what do they do? Because airports are so small now and there's so many people on a flight, they're out in the middle, and you're trying to race to the other end of the concourse to get your flight, and the people are in your way and you're trying to say, "Excuse me." And about after the seventh "Excuse me," it's, "Hey, can you see that I live here too? I'm trying to get through right now." Brian, now the tension's up here. The higher that tension level gets, plus that many people in a small — you remember the studies from the '60s? They put a bunch of rats in a confined area, and the rats increased their level of violence to a point that was amazing. They were they were killing each other. Now, I think it was last year, might have been two years ago, they had the monkey test. And it was at Yerkes (National Primate Research Center) in Atlanta. Look it up, folks, it's a good study. And what they did is they they put the monkeys in the same condition of the rats because they were primates. Brian, guess what they did? They coped. And what was the coping strategy? They moved a little to allow the other monkey a little bit more room. They took time and groomed the other monkey so the monkey wouldn't get pissed, and it calmed them down. So I'm highly so they think that, you know, that no no but that's a that's an interesting point. You know you putting them in there they they immediately went to, "We need to sort of pacify the situation," right? So something has to happen. Rats said, "I'm going to escalate to get more space." Monkey said, "I'm going to de-escalate."

Yeah. Always be considering de-escalation. That's a good plan. No, that's that's a it's an interesting point. And of course, physiologically, we're we're very, very close to the monkeys. A little bit a little bit. I'm looking a little bit farther away from the rats, similar in some systems, but I mean, yeah, the monkeys were like 98 point something percent the same. But no, that that that's that's a good, that's an interesting study to look at in terms of how they cope with it. But all of these things, I mean, I've had my own, I've had plenty of situations. We've seen crazy stuff on flights before, just when you especially when you do travel a lot, you end up seeing, you know, famous people, you see fights, you see all kinds of stuff. But even with me, one time it is that I was flying from when I was doing a lot of that, doing a lot of that training down that center down there in Georgia. And then I was taking some time to go up to fly back to Chicago. I was going to meet the wife, she was going to meet me there, and we were going to Michigan and my buddies, my good friend's wedding, right? And so like this is awesome. I get a couple days off, you know, I'm excited. You get on the plane, I it's not a lot, it's not a packed flight. So I get the free upgrade to first class from, you know, Atlanta to Chicago. It's not not a long, not that long of a flight, but you know, everyone's on the plane. I'm sitting there. I've already got my beer from the flight attendant. You know, I'm excited because I pull up on the little screen. They have that at the time it was the new documentary on the Chicago Bears, the '85 Bears. So I'm like, "Oh my God, this is so awesome. Like this is going to be a great flight."

The stars are aligned.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, the stars aligned. All right. So sure enough, like the last person on this plane was this woman who, as soon as she stepped onto the plane where I could see her, I was like, "This person's got issues. She's an addict," right? She had just the telltale signs of how she was behaving and acting, and like overly nice, trying to co-opt the the flight attendants like, "I'm so sorry. Oh, hey, those are beautiful earrings." I'm like, this she's a scam, she's just a scam artist, right? Just over the top. And of course, she's sitting right next to me. And then she gets a drink, which she then, and she was already trying to do the talk to me, and I was doing the polite, "I'm not going to say anything. Oh, okay," like putting in my headphones, you know, when I look at you and I put my headphones in and I plug them into the screen to let you know I'm not interested in talking.

Exactly.

So same thing. She gets she spills her her drink all over me because she's just not paying attention, and she hits it and falls right on me. And then so we've got that going on. This is like before we even take off. And I'm like, "Oh great." And she's like overly apologetic. And I'm like, "Okay, this is not going to be." Already I'm doing the, "All right, I am already starting like my breathing exercises, just trying to like lower that stress because I'm like I already know where this is going." She would not shut up. She kept trying to like tapping me when I'm watching this. The point where like I pulled my headphones out, I was like, "Excuse me, I'm sorry like I know you want to talk like I'm actually super into this. I'm a big Chicago Bears fan, I grew up there, I've been wanting to watch this, so I'm just trying to zone out on this right now. Thanks." And she would not stop, and she's like, I mean, she would not shut up and would not stop talking to me. And I was getting super pissed. I had to get up, I had to say something to the flight attendant. The flight attendant was apologetic, you know, you do just like because this woman was a handful. To the point where thankfully some gentleman sitting across the aisle got up and said like, "Hey, man, like why don't you sit down here? Like I'll go sit over there." And so I did not have to worry about the rest of the flight. I calmed down, I got off the plane, and I was actually in a hurry because we had to go, I had to meet up with Michael and we had to go do. So I'm like trying to, you know, look at the time, trying to bolt off the plane as quick as I can. And I'm walking through the terminal already and the guy that had the guy that switched seats for me just grabs my arm and goes, "Hey, man, you owe me a drink." And I'm like, I'm like, "Dude, I owe you an entire bottle of something. Like, thank you so much." And he was like, "Wow, like now I see why you were getting upset. Like she was completely insane." I was like, "Yeah, and she would not stop." I was like, "Hey, man, like I really appreciate it because I wanted to put her face through the window because I was getting so upset and so angry out there because she was so obnoxious, and all I wanted to do was sit there and watch my show and go to my destination." And, you know, it's amazing that like I study human behavior performance for a living, and you talk about these things, and I'm like immediately there. Like, I'm like losing it because of just all of those conditions, right? Each one of those can each one of those things on their own was nothing. When you combine them all together in an aluminum tube at 35,000 feet, you know, there's no get because there, you know, your brain knows there's no getting out of this situation. You can't leave. You can't leave that that's you can't you can't walk out and go take a breath, right? You you're stuck in there. You're in that aluminum tube of emotion until the plane lands. So there's no getting out of there, there's no escape. And I think that triggers that survival, of course, so much faster. Fight or flight, right?

Oh, I was immediately in it. Like, and I know when I get that, so I'm like, "All right, I got to calm down. You know, just just breathe, this isn't a big deal. You're you know, you're going this is where we're get you're going on vacation, your buddy's getting married, let's have it." But like, I didn't have a choice. Like, I had to deal with her the whole time. I mean, I had no choice, that's the thing. Like, so now I feel like, yeah, I'm in that immediate flight-or-fight mode. I have no choice. I can't I can't excuse myself the situation. I told the flight attendant. I got up and I said, "Put me in there. You got to do something. I don't care where in the plane, I don't care if it's all the way in the back next to the — I don't care if it's inside the — you need to get me a different seat. I cannot sit here next to this woman. She's she's absolutely insane." And she was like, "Whoa, okay, here we go." So she was all apologetic. You know, they do that where they give you like free miles or something after that and refund you certain stuff. They did all that for me, like, but I didn't care. I just I wanted to get out of that situation so bad.

And that's a form of de-escalation, too, Brian. Well, yeah, I tried trying to to de-escalate. So, I worked for a company when I met you the first time on the West Coast before deployment. I worked for a company that was flying me back and forth in and out of country a lot, and I never saw the ranch or my house or my wife, and I thought I was going to be fine. I'll give you one of those examples. I've done Third Marine in Hawaii. They flew me to Monterey. I did a unit that was leaving Monterey. They flew me to L.A. I fly from Los Angeles to Atlanta. I did two courses back-to-back at Benning. Went up the damn neck, hit New Jersey. They flew me to Frankfurt. Frankfurt, I had a four-and-a-half-hour layover, but it wasn't long enough to to like wash or clean or do any of that other things. You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah, yeah.

So, all I did was drink that gigantic liter of beer, right? I know that bar, you know, and it's right between the two things. Yes. Right after, it's right before you get on the plane when you come out of the duty-free maze that they make you go through. Yeah. Right. And it almost looks like a it looks like a patio because it's not like really a bar, it's a patio. And you're everybody around you is doing the same thing. So I get on the plane, and from Frankfurt I go to to Saudi Arabia to to do something in Saudi Arabia. And then Saudi Arabia went to the Gulf. The Gulf went up to to Iraq or Afghanistan, whatever the thing was. But so, it was like three and a half days of these flights back and forth, and all the stuff. And you know how you feel grimy and stuff? Well, the Frankfurt to whatever it was, it might have been Dubai, Frankfurt to Dubai. Like, the guy comes in, and I'm on the Frankfurt seat where there's only two seats. And I figured, "Hey, that's not bad because I don't have a middle, so I'll get some sleep." And it was two seats, three seats, two seats. And then it went back up to the other stuff. So nobody gets a seat next to me, and I'm excited. And all of a sudden they start doing the closing the door, and they're doing it in all the different languages. And this guy comes on, and this guy is so sweatered up, and he's got three bags instead of the two. And the Germans don't take any. So they're telling him, "Yeah, they're like," and he's fighting with them. So he plops down, and he's the aisle seat, which I like because I got to go to the bathroom all the time. I'm in the window. And so I was like, "Oh man, I should have moved, you know, I should have done this." And he sits down, plops down, puts his seatbelt on, and he's smelly already because of the run. He reaches into his inside jacket pocket, takes out a bottle of Drakkar Noir, and pours it in his hands and splashes it over him like he's doing an ablution. Then proceeds to go to sleep. So I've got that next eight and a half hour flight wedged in next to. And you know, I mean, Brian, we've both been on scary flights, too. So that added to my, that was so close to having a match ignite me and the big guy going off. I was on a flight from Ontario, California, to San Diego because everything was stopped. Yeah, delayed, you know. And on the flight there, and it's a very small jet, you know, the Airbus, whatever the the things that where it's one seat on the left and two on the right. Have you ever been on one of those? And it's really like a can. You got to duck down. And so I'm on that, and I hear behind me a guy yelling. And it just happened to be Gulf Arabic. It drew my attention because I knew what he was yelling, and I'm like, "Well, you don't see that every day." And it happened to be during the height of the wars that were going on at the time. And all of a sudden we had just leveled off, and you know, the bing kind of thing. He comes up out of his chair and he's screaming, and the people around him are screaming. And I look back and everybody at the same time was going, "Bing, bing, hit the button!" Yeah. So the flight attendant is facing me, and she's sitting on one of those little jump seats. Yeah. And the back of her is the pilot cockpit, right? Yep. And so she's looking and she's doing the, "Should I stay or should I go?" So the guy walks by me, and I I introduce the guy to the plane floor because I'm kind of experienced in doing that. And I sat on him until the guy turns the plane around and lands and the cops came up. And she comes up to me afterwards and goes, "Thank you. I had no idea what to do. He's huge." Well, what it was, Brian, is this guy had a physiological reaction, a medical issue, and the medical issue made him rip his shirt open, start screaming, "Allahu Akbar," that's what I'm trying to say. And so, but I will tell you, I will tell you that it changes when you're in a car and you can pull over. Yeah, there's something about your psyche that it's ramped up when you know that you can't just pull over somewhere or ask the guy to leave. It's not like a a party that gets out of hand and you say, "Okay, pal, you got to step outside." You can't do that at 30,000 feet.

Well then, and that's the point. And that's how these things, right? That's the that's the additional, you know, contributing factor that's present in all of these cases, right? So you can how many times have people gotten into, you know, drunken arguments at a bar and nothing ever happens or they just got to get out of here? Like, you you can't do that, right? So that that's that's the whole thing is you are when you are traveling on a plane in an airport, you're already in somewhat of a survival mode. Yeah, your brain has no control over the situation. You have to co — you have to be very compliant, right? Above and beyond your normal level of compliance in a society, right? That that we all, we all, you know, we we buy into society in terms of compliance. I mean, from a psychological stance and even just from a kind of from a democracy, right? We we buy into this idea of what we're doing and we're following there's rules and there's regulations. But when you're traveling in that in that in an airport on a plane, there's now you got to stand in line over here. Now you've got to wait your turn. "Hey, now you got to have a mask on. Now your bag can only be this size. Now you got it." Like, there's so many so much more compliance that's required out of people that typically isn't that it becomes very stressful. And I know all the even frequent travelers talk about travel all the time, "Not a big deal." No, it is a big deal. And if you do travel a lot, you fall into that idea of like you forget how much is going on. So, I I think people don't realize when they see those fights in the terminal, fights on a plane and be like, "Oh, people are savages." It's like, "Well, the conditions really set this. The conditions are right for this almost to the point where I'm like, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, right?" But but it is happening more often, right? It's not just that it's it's being reported more often. No, these things are occurring. You know, that's what I saw when it started coming out, people fighting in the terminal, I'm like, "Jesus, they're not even up in flight yet, and it's already going out."

We we are we are lacking in resilience in this nation in a very bad way, right? We're not we're not dealing with the situation very well. We're not handling it. No, no. Here's here's a place where those two words that we were want not to use often enough, situation awareness, comes in. Most of the people that you're talking about that don't see it that say, "I fly all the time," are so non-situationally aware that they're missing all the cues. And I'll give you an example. I I absolutely loved Shelley's New Mexico father. She's got two East Coast dads still alive, New Mexico father, God rest his soul. And we were pulling up. It was a long time ago, back when I used to smoke. And we just happened to be driving outside of Rio Rancho and there was a place that had discounted cigarettes. So we were all going to pull in and grab a pack. You know, so as we pull in a parking lot, I said to him, "Stay in the car. Stay in the car. Stay in the car." And he's pulling up, he's got the family truckster, and he pulls in, puts it in park, and gets out. And right in the middle of a brawl. As we were pulling in, I noticed these two guys, and I noticed the posturing. And well before it happens, in my mind, Brian, the way I'm I'm going to motor and the way I see it, time slows down and I can see the aggression building. And I know I have a threshold and I know it's going to be a fight. So before we were ever coasting across the parking lot and pulling in, I saw the conditions were right for this fight. He didn't. So afterwards when he he goes, "Holy, I was in the military. How did you see that?" And it's like, "I'm conditioned to see that." Yeah. And then he thought I was effing with him, right? And I go, "No, you've got to understand that, Brian. Shelley, me, you know, when we go out into the world, we're more in tune with that because that's what we do all the time. That's our milieu." So you're sitting there and you go, "I got my book," or, "I got my vid," or, "I got my head," and you want to check out. So guess what? Confirmation bias allows you to check out. So so we're more in tune. And I would tell you that that I wish I could check out on an airplane, but it's tough. I wish I could, you know, but I see every little argument that's going on in the fart festival. Yeah. And have you ever been sitting next to somebody that plops down late in the middle seat and opens up their — I can't remember the name of the company that it starts with a C and they make the the pizza stuff, and it's so smelly with the garlic and everything else, and they're right there. Yeah, they're just, yeah, the calzone or whatever. California Pizza Kitchen, yeah, yeah, yeah, or something. And they're just, Sbarro, that's it. And they're speaking down on their self, and they're wiping and they're grunting, and then immediately they go to sleep and all you smell is garlic. It's still here.

That's farts. That's a great that's actually, do you remember when we were they were telling us that one we got that fed the wonderful meal in in Saudi Arabia, the the locals in Jeddah? Yeah. Well, they know they have a they have a big fried chicken place that everyone loves in Saudi Arabia. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Told us. So people people would fly from Riyadh to Jeddah, just a quick hop flight, just to go eat there and come back. And they had to make that rule because people would stock up and they'd bring all that chicken back with them on the plane. And then people would get upset because they were smelling all this chicken. And some of those airlines had a rule you weren't allowed to bring that fried chicken on the plane because so many people got upset, which is like, I mean, it's hilarious.

Yeah, but Brian, listen, do you remember the flight from Bahrain? That's the one I thought you were talking about where they handed us those little sandwiches that looked like an egg roll, and we were both considering eating it. Yeah, until you put up your blind, you know, with the window blind, and about four of those sandwiches fell out. That's where everybody was hiding theirs. But that that that flight as well, you want to talk about anxiety in flight, is we were coming in for a landing, and as we were coming in for a landing, about to hit the ground, that guy gets up, grabs his bag, and starts moving forward in the plane. And that's when you and I did, "Well, we we missed this one. Best that's it. It's been fun. High five. We're we're done." But then the guy just was, you know, once he got up, everyone else started to do because he wanted to be the first one off the plane. And what we noticed in that situation was the lack of reaction from people around us, the crew, and then the flight attendant.

Yeah, the eye roll. Like, "God, I've seen this before," yelling at the guy.

And so to us, it was like, "Oh, this guy's gonna this guy's he's gonna detonate whatever's in that bag." And, yep, you know, over there, it was just like, "Now this happens all the time, he wants to run to the front of the plane and get off first." And you're the only one. And the one thing we did see, Brian, not only did we say that, and now we use that as a file folder, that the people around us weren't agitated, and the flight attendants acted like this, "Ho hum, it's business as usual." But we didn't see enter any of the human anger or assault cues that would have been compensated. We had a great photo of it. Yeah, and we didn't see mission focus. As a matter of fact, the guy next to me with his pocket full was laughing. Yeah. And he was so like everybody, he played dumb. Remember, we had the photo looking back like, "Oh, I didn't know." And he was smiling like, I mean, so so that another another good story that just reminded me of. But, so here here's the thing with all this is, you know, you got to be careful in these situations, right? Because at an airport, in flight, you know, there's a there's a lot the the potential for disaster is is so far greater than a lot of people realize. And the potential for something to go catastrophically wrong. And I bring up, you know, talked about a little bit of of these situations that happen on an airplane where that recent one where the pilot was like, "Hey, this guy, you know, please subdue this passenger, do whatever. I'm gonna land the plane." Like, you know, the guy got up and was saying stuff on the on the intercom. Brian, I mean, one, that's terrifying for everyone on the plane. Like, that is again, you have no control. You're in the survival situation, you're only the worst things. You know, how many times have an airplane been used for part of something greater, either an attack or to get hijacked or whatever? So now, especially after 9/11, people are more likely to do something, right? Everyone's like, "You amp for this. Oh, here we go again. We have a little bit of a of a memory on that." But, you know, that could spiral out of control very quickly from someone who's just drunk or emotionally disturbed, something going on. And now you're helping out, you know, a flight crew, you know, detain this person or prevent them from doing whatever they're trying to do. And in one of these situations, one of those people are going to die.

And listen, I want to make sure that we're abundantly clear about this. You talk about the most horrific one, the most recent one. I talked about one a couple of weeks ago outside of San Diego, I think it was, where the flight attendant got their teeth so. So I'm not talking — when I say homicide, I'm not talking that a person dies because they were smothered because of positional restraint, right? Because of overzealous passengers piling on. I'm talking about somebody gets so angry that air rage takes over, yes, and they hit somebody so hard that they're not thinking, and that person impacts with the hard seat and floor and dies because of their injuries. And Brian, they were the proximate cause that makes it a homicide. And and and you know that it's not an accidental death, you know, in in the contributing factors were all of those things that if you could have solved it in the concourse, if you could have solved it on the jetway or when the plane was on the ground, I think that you have an obligation to step in. And so what would that look like? Who would you go?

Well, that's that's the thing. There is, you know, I've I've said things to I bring stuff to people's attention because have you seen one of these? I know that no, I'm not talking about in the bathroom. Oh, I'm sorry, it's it's been a long flight.

A long flight.

So, back to what I mean about letting someone know or or saying something. But I've done it on the ground before, and you know, you see people getting agitated, right? We've all seen that person, you know, shouting at the gate agent over their flight's delayed or this, that or the other thing, or they can't move their seat or something. And sometimes those folks handle it well, sometimes they don't. I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly, right? I've seen, you know, those gate agents or whatever just like, you know, bad customer service. I've seen really great customer service. Yes. And anytime I see a great one, I always say, I try to say something to that person, "Hey, like that was a really good job handling that situation."

You have to.

But but when you see, you can see those factors starting to get worse or coalesce right there on the ground before you even get on. And our whole motto, and what we said when we did work with some of those airlines, is that, you know, "Problems don't get easier at 30,000 feet." In fact, they get much more difficult. That pressure, not just unlike the cabin pressure, just literally pressure increases when you're in there. So, so why not do something about it on the ground before it gets worse? And, you know, just dude because we got some of that inside baseball on a whole bunch of things in the airline industry. But one of those things, too, is just even how they operate where that gate agent who gets everyone on the plane doesn't manifest — they're in control before you that airplane anything. Before before that airplane door closes, they're the ones who actually call the shots, right? They're the ones who say, "Yes, no, this is no go," or, "We got to do this," or, "We got to wait because we have 20 people from a flight that's delayed that are coming over to this one." That gate agent controls it. And that's the person to kind of kind of talk to when you're up there because if you do see that behavior, and that's if you've seen something that they're not while they're on the computer, is letting them know of doing the, "Hey, look, this this may be nothing, right?" I always start that, "This may be nothing, but I'm seeing this person do that and they're increasing in aggressiveness and they're consuming alcohol and they're doing this." And you know what, "I bet problems don't get easier at 30,000 feet." When you say that line, it clicks in people's heads for some reason. They go, "Damn, you know what? You're right."

So, and I would add, Brian, I I would say that's so perfect. You just created the script for me. I would add one more thing. If you want to compel the person to do something, say, "Listen, I was going to step in, but I don't think it's my place." You see what I'm trying to say? Because what you've done is you've just shifted it, right? You put the responsibility on that.

I literally did.

Because because what you said is you came up and you said, "Look, this is probably nothing." You just got my attention. Yeah, anytime someone says that to me, I'm like, "Oh, it's probably something." And the only thing that would get my attention more is if I wrote it on a piece of paper, folded it in half, and handed it to her, right? Which you probably don't want to do. But no. So so you get what I'm saying, Brian? You're actually saying, "I'm going to calm this down, and I'm going to say something before it happens." And two things happen there: one, you're compelling that person to do their job. The second thing you're doing is you're creating a legal standard. You're saying, "I've recognized misbehavior. What are you going to do about it?"

Well, and it's important, too. It shouldn't — the only time some a bystander, right? So if you're you're you're a traveler, you're not you're not security, you don't work at the airport, you don't work for the airline, you you you inserting yourself in those situations can escalate it, right? You could be a contributing factor to it now. So rather than getting in an argument with another passenger or something, I would avoid that at all costs because now you're part of the problem. And now everyone else says, "Well, you're the guy that walked up and said something." So now you now suddenly it gets turned on you, right?

Exactly. That's the other idea about co-opting others or getting that person involved and saying like, "Look, this is what I saw." And you know, maybe they can or can't do anything about it. Maybe they do or don't, but you kind of did that role of getting that first level of this is something we might need to attend to because it's going it's likely going to get serious. Brian, even if you're sitting on that plane, turn those words around. You hit on something again right there that I think people should listen to. Listen to what Brian said: "You don't want to be the person telling the person, 'Pipe down, sit down.'" Yeah, but if you look and you say, "This person's scaring me," that changes everything. And all the heads start to turn. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And they're going, "Oh my gosh, what's going on?" Co-opting your fellow passenger and let the staff do their job.

Well, and the other thing is, you know, we get humans go like, you know, in all these situations, we we we go primal very quickly. And so there's different physiological, psychological, sociological ways, though, that gets expressed. But I'll give you another example from a flight actually out of Atlanta, too, where they came on the gate agent came on, everyone's standing around, kind of waiting to board. They said, "Hey, folks, here's the deal. We, you know, there's this storm coming in, this is happening. If we don't get out of here, you know, five minutes prior to our scheduled takeoff time, we're not getting out of here. We're going to get grounded. So we need to load this plane as quickly as possible, okay?" When they did that, Greg, I've never seen people so helpful to one another my entire life. You had people like picking up grandma, two other people grabbing her bags. Like everyone helping out anyone. Like, I mean, you just saw people, "Here, let me get you back." Like everyone was just throwing stuff in there, getting seated. I've never one never seen a plane loaded so quickly and never be people. Everyone did what they all banded together, right? Because they said, "We have a common purpose. We none of us want to get delayed in the airport. None of us want to get grounded. We don't want to go sit on the tarmac. We want to get out of here." So everyone was immediately, "We're in it to win it as a group." It was the most amazing thing I ever saw. Here's the thing. Everyone got on the plane and boarded really quick. Everyone was in their seats. And then we're sitting there, and then we're sitting there and it's tick-tock, tick-tock, and you could hear people, "What's going on? Are we going to get out of here?" So all of a sudden that anxiety is increasing. And guess what they're waiting for? There was another connecting flight with like, you know, 10 or 15 people that were coming straight to this one, right? Well, they didn't get the clue. They they didn't get the brief about about yeah, they didn't get told, "Hey," they didn't get the feeling of, "We're all in this together, and we're in it to win it." No, they didn't get any of that stuff. Guess what they got? They got people, "Come on, hurry up! Sit down!" There were people yelling at them. So imagine you're just walking on a plane, you got your bag, and you're looking for your seat, and all of a sudden people are going, "Hurry up! Gee, this this situation's escalating!" I mean, I'm talking people got really, really pissed, like, "You're going to make us late! Let's go!" I'm like, "Holy crap, this anxiety level is super high now." We were fortunate enough to they got them loaded up and the flight attendant came on and said, "Hey, folks, hey, we got to hurry up and get out of here. So please get your seat as quickly as possible. Hey, other passengers, let's give them a hand." There you go. So, so not co-opting people, they get, "Oh," then what do you have? Of course, now people go, "Oh, yeah," and they jump up and they start grabbing bags. So, I mean, it's funny how, you know, you you see that play out how we're just creatures, right? We're creatures in this this environment. And and those words are important and how we use them. And so that could have gone completely the opposite way. You know, that flight attendant could have come on and said, "Hey, let's go! We got to get going, folks! Come on! I know you're from connecting flight, but blah, blah." They could have added to it, or they could have said nothing. They could have said nothing and let the anxiety stew, right? And that wouldn't have been good. So that, I mean, in that case, we were fortunate to to get out. But just watching that dynamic change so quickly, you know, it shows us how how, you know, my ideas, individually, you can reason with most people, Greg. I'm sure even in your experience, even sometimes emotionally disturbed, you know, drugs, alcohol on board, even with that stuff, most people you can have a one-on-one conversation and reason with. We can come to some sort of consensus or conclusion. When we get into groups and we're in crowds, we get dumb real quick. I mean, real quick. We get really, really stupid. We get very territorial, territorial, and we go very limbic, right? We have this this primal response gets engaged very quickly. I mean, as soon as those numbers start to multiply, it becomes very unreasonable. I mean, that that's the things that that's part of the reason why these things escalate so quickly.

Yeah. So so I think out of that, first of all, there's many things you and I do some limited objective experiments in bars and walking through bars that are crowded. And you'd say, "Excuse me," or, "Thank you." And the person immediately said, "What did you call me?" Yeah, you know, you're in for a night. You know what I'm saying? Because that just happens. People are ready and short-fused already and they're just looking for a catalyst. But I think you said something I want to expound upon, too, about catching somebody doing something right. You have to thank the right people. Look, being a flight attendant now is like working at Denny's at three in the morning. Yeah, when you're working at Denny's at three in the morning, no matter what you do is wrong because everybody there is shit-faced and unhappy and they're, you know, pouring it on and ready to screw or fight or do whatever else. And and you know, you learn to be a great hostage negotiator. So when you see that gate agent, you make sure that you tell them thank you for helping me, thank you for this, thank you for whatever. And you're saying, "Yep, they're getting paid for it." You know, look, I'm thinking the bagger at the A&P so they don't on my cling peaches. Got to get into a habit of thanking the right people because, Brian, they're at wits' end as well. I don't care how well you trained for your job or what training that you've gone through. Later in the day, after a bunch of delays and everything, why we fly early in the morning, Brian, we fly at oh-dark-thirty because there's rarely a chance that that flight's not going to go. Later in the day, we've been caught between those flights where by the time you get there, the flight's been gone for 35 minutes. And what do they do to the gate agent? They they have, "Oh, it's their fault! How can how dare you do this to me?" And we see those people unwind. That's not fair, folks. And you blow because you're a human. And so the very first thing you think about is you you know, your fragile little ego system, and you don't think about that other person. I would say, Brian, always be considering de-escalation.

Well, especially at the airport. And that's why I keep bringing up the different primal reaction. Even the one I had is like, you can't control that. Going to go back to Dr. Nisbet, who we had on on the previous episode. He's like, "We don't know where that like that physiological arousal is. Like when you're in that moment, you don't know where it comes from. Like, you don't know that it has nothing to do with the situation you're in right now. It has everything to do with all these other things you're dealing with at the time in your life, and you're running late." Like, you don't know that when you're in that moment. You're just directing it, "Well, this is the problem." When in fact, it's the the six beers you had while you're waiting, plus the fact that you're running late, and then, you know, whatever happened, and you're going to you travel somewhere you don't even want to go, whatever the situation is, that's what's actually happening. But and I I think that's why, you know, you see these things as people just queue this is human nature where we go primal so quickly because no one came in and de-escalated that situation or no one came in and reasoned with that individual, right? It's just once that stuff starts, it's it's got to run its course sometimes. Once you get to a certain point, there is.

Yeah, you're exactly right. This is this is the important thing about about rage. You know, it's about road rage or air rage as we're calling this episode, right? Rage is different than anger, right? When I'm upset or angry, like I got pissed off at that that lady who spilled her drink on me and was being obnoxious, and I was in, okay, but that's different than rage. Because anger, right, you can you can come back from anger, right? You can calm yourself down, the situation can diffuse. Rage, once you get to that point, you know, it it has to run its course. It's not going to stop. That person isn't going to stop fighting, shooting, stabbing, whatever it is, until that rage subsides. It has to go somewhere. And so you might be that unfortunate bystander where that rage, you know, spills over, right? That once that cup is full, right, and you bump into that individual, guess what? Now whatever's in that cup is spilling over.

You're hitting something again that's so important to talk about. You know, that there was a period that I got those those shooting and gun shows for free, you remember that? Yeah. So every one of my analogies had to do with that because I was binge watching them. And and I hated them because there was the one that, you know, person cuts you off, flash their high beam, pulls into traffic, cuts you off again. And so all the shootings that I read after that started from, "So I pulled over to the side of the road to find out what the person's problem with." Yeah, no one. Slow down and let them pass you. Two, drive to a police station or an emergency room or somewhere where there's people that are trained and have armed security because that person is going to come out fighting. So if you know that, why would you do that? So on an airplane, when you see that the conditions have been set and it's increasing and the op tempo tends to point towards a violent interaction, Brian, you got to go and do the primate thing. You got to start grooming yourself, you get what I'm saying? Grooming the person on the middle seat, you know, braiding their hair and avoiding that. And this is the time that you need to do ostrich. Stick your head in the sand and not be aggressive, but pay attention because if that threshold increases, you may have to defend yourself. But I'm telling you that de-escalation is still possible, but I would start it at its earliest point. Hitting that buzzer and telling the lady, "Listen, I think something's starting over there. I'm uncomfortable. Please help me," right? Those questions right there. "Brian, please help me. Can you help me?" I say that. I say, "I'm uncomfortable, please help me," all the time when you and I are out in public and no one.

No, that's true.

Well, and now we're back to the example of the airport bathroom, you know, "I'm a little disoriented, please help me," with your opening lines, and it does not work. And there's a little foot tapping going on in that stall there.

There we go. Something happening there.

Well, that article that was talking at my heart the other day, the guy's finally back, you know, the Zoom guy. Don't remember his name, I'm not going to go there because I don't want to get sued. How can you be have such a great understanding of constitutional law and have no idea how to carry yourself on a Zoom call? I don't understand how that that works, but I tell you I had talked to my heartbreak.

Yeah, I bet it did.

So to clear up, he exposed his emotions.

Man, I'm just saying one way to describe it, to describe it.

Oh God, talk about an uncomfortable conversation when they had him back on air. That's hilarious. But just to clear up what you said a couple minutes ago, Greg does not want you to start braiding the hair of the woman or man sitting in front of you.

No, no, it's a metaphor, it's a humanism. I'm not actually saying to do it. Can we get can we get off the to? It's called "pulling a tube in," I believe, the phrase the kids are saying now. I'm not sure those Riley kids. No, rage must run its course. Allow the person the gift of time and distance to calm down because you have to be calm to have a rational discussion. And if not, you go to the command Spanish or the command English or the commander. And that's only going to exacerbate the situation.

The and then try to avoid the eye roll, "Here we go again." You can't. Once once you do that, though, once meaning, when you see those situations, right? When you see that a lot of times people go, you know, I I love the the social media warriors who constantly post videos of all these things happening, going, "How did this person not know? I would have done this." It's like, "Oh, listen."

Can I talk about that for a second? What do you think happens? Listen, there's a show I can't tell you the show about police that brought cameras and did it live. It brought out the worst in coppers many times. Brian, you bring out the shoe phone and you start videotaping it, that now I can't hold it for somebody. Now I'm gonna oh now you've got a camera and I'm going to accelerate. Don't do that. You've got to be careful and not you got to walk with pillows on your ass and eggshells under your feet and and slow things down. You got to be prepared to defend yourself, but don't be the catalyst, don't be the only one.

Well, that that that's I'm just talking about even a bystander when you're doing that stuff. Like when these things happen, right? I have to go, "All right, what's likely going to occur? What's the most dangerous thing that that can occur right now?" Because I see the reason why so many people miss this stuff is they just write it off as like, "Oh, it's just something," exactly, "a guy who had a couple too many drinks. I've seen that before." It's like, "No, there's other contributing factors here. What are they? Is anyone is anyone attempting to de-escalate the situation?" I think that's yeah, that's a that's a big point on why these things get missed beforehand. You know, when when, you know, we we've all felt that atmospheric shift sort of when you know you're at a you're a hockey game or a football game, whatever, and you when it when a fight breaks out in the stands and like you feel it, you see it almost go out like a wave. Like, like that's kind of what we're talking about.

That's kind of what we're talking about, Brian. Time for a Greg-ism: If you have time to film it, you have time to stop it. It's true. And people don't think that way, and we need them to think that way. It's the ABCs: Always Be Considering that de-escalation because the life you save here may be your own. You don't want to be like a burning lawn chair, you know what I'm saying, heading into a mountain because somebody didn't get their Starbucks on time.

That's that's a that's a good that's a good point because that's that might just be that that's the thing that that's that pushes that and pushes you over the the ledge, sort of speaking, I guess, right? That's the the straw that breaks the camel's back. There's always something else going on in these situations that we have to be aware of that you don't know about, and you're not going to know about it. So you have to take it for for what it means in the context in which you're observing. But I think that's kind of a kind of a good spot to to bring it in for a landing on air rage. That's so bad, it's so heavy-handed right there. So, but I I do agree with your prediction that it's obviously it's a matter of time and we thought it was going to be last year, and I just think due to air travel. But I think this year, you're right, it's it's dangerous, and you do see all those reports of flight attendants getting — you actually don't see as many of those, but flight attendants get assaulted all the time. I mean, it just it is.

10,800 incidents last year alone. 10,800 that rose to the level that the plane had to be brought down, okay? Because of the assault and behavior of the passengers. Think of that. And this is why I don't understand airlines don't get more involved or do something because what does that cost them? Remember, it's a million, a couple million dollars every time a plane has to land that isn't in an unscheduled place or whatever. It can be a million.

I mean, it's just it's it's another thing that that occurs. But that they should do more to protect their employees and and make this safer for everyone. But it costs a lot of money, but it does happen more than people realize. And so that's why when you see these things a lot more in the news, that's what drew my attention, especially last year. They said I go, "Okay, well, you know, there's there's a lot more restrictions, people are upset, this is going on." And I'm like, "Well, if I'm seeing more, what what what am I not seeing? What else is going on in there?" So there's a great number that you just brought up there.

Over time, look it up, you can find it. And Brian, I want to tell you briefly, folks, it's the middle of June, makes me always think of Juneteenth. Juneteenth, a great celebration, great time for that. Also makes Juneteenth makes me think of my best friend in the whole world, Chantel Clements. It's his birthday. I I love him to death, and he went to hell and back, death and back. He's truly the Lazarus of my relations, and I just wanted to say happy birthday to him, Brian.

Well, that was very nice of you. And also, thank you to all of our new Patreon subscribers, too. We're going to be putting more on there. There is we do our episode recaps for those of you listening to some of the other episodes that we've had on. We're going to be doing that every time afterwards, kind of get on and talk about our initial thoughts after an interview with someone. So, you know, thanks everyone who's who's following us on there and for pledging. We kind of goes to make the show better, so we'll have even more for you.

Yeah, but we will.

Well, we're going to reach out to us on there too is we can do some special we're going to be doing some special pods and different stuff for just the Patreon-only subscribers, and we can do some Q&A and we want to do some live stuff as well. So that we put all that stuff on there for you guys to check out to any of our previous webinars. So there's all kinds of other human behavior related stuff on there with some more tools for your tool kit, as they as they say. So any any any last any other last words there, Greg, on this one?

Just thank you for all that you do behind the scenes, Brian, to website and the podcast going. Thank you. And I'm in a benevolent mood. Apparently.

Apparently, so. Did you go to the dentist again today? Are you on drugs?

No, no. So.

All right. I don't have a tube in. I knew you were going to get one more in there. I knew you were going to get one more in there, and that was horrible. Thank you.

Horrible. I saw one comment was that that they should have had all the CNN staff on there and interview them and everyone went around telling them their own, you know, personal embarrassing masturbation story, but they didn't. Oh my Lord, that's terrible.

You know what, we've had we've had dumb enough stuff happen during the podcast getting cut off in between or the power outage or anything. Yeah, so I feel bad, but if you bring it on yourself, you kind of got it coming. All right, and on that on that note, thanks everyone for tuning in. Don't forget, training changes.