L.O.G. 191 Commercial Drone Use with Bill Edwards

Alright, good morning, everyone. Greg, today we are joined by a former podcast guest, retired Colonel Bill Edwards. Bill, thanks so much for coming on the show, and the first show recorded in the New Year. So, Happy New Year to you and everyone listening.

Yeah, Happy New Year, guys. And we're hitting the New Year running.

Yeah, same thing here. So, we've had you on before, obviously, to talk about your book. But what we didn't get into on that podcast, which I wanted to have you back on, is kind of what you do now. You've been in the private sector for a while, doing a lot of security work in a lot of different areas. Everything from security design for construction purposes, to now, a lot of what you do is commercial drone use. And you're sort of the subject matter expert in this area because you've been doing a ton of research on it, and it's in the field of your work. So, I wanted to have you on to talk about that because there's so much more, obviously, use of drone use commercially and privately that we see today. Including now even another article I think you shared on LinkedIn not long ago about Amazon now testing out in a couple cities the delivery of drone stuff, which will drive me insane because my wife has, I feel like, an Amazon package showing up here every single day. So, if I have a drone all of a sudden come into my yard, I'm going to freak out a little bit. But, get ready, get ready for deliveries in your backyard, that's what they're talking about. Exactly. So, we've got that, but also going on at the same time, recently with the war in Ukraine, and the just extensive use of drones in that conflict, and how it's rapidly evolving, rapidly changing. And that's going to affect the use even here at home: commercial use, security use. Anyone can hop on, like we were talking about. Everyone can hop on YouTube, check out how someone's using it, and go, 'I can do something pretty bad with this drone technology.' So, I kind of want to start with you to give a little bit of background or talk about what you are doing, or what your subject matter area of expertise is with drone use on the commercial side. I think we can jump into it from there, if that makes sense.

No, it sounds great. Yes. So, I'll just do a little history. Back in 2017, when I retired from the Army, I was really interested in the evolution of commercial drone platforms. As a ground commander in Iraq in 2010, 2011, I was actually starting to get a little worried about what was actually, maybe or possibly, being used against us from a commercial perspective, because it was an interesting time of transition. And the first commercial drone actually came to market—that's what I always talk about—it did come out in 2010. It was with a French company called Parrot. And they went to market with a commercial drone where you could actually go and buy it and use it, really, for recreational use, or whatever the intent is. At that point, for recreational use, it was more about having fun with the platforms. And since that time—if you think about it, we're in 2023 now, so roughly 13 years—if you look at the evolution of this technology from that point until now, it's incredible. It's, I equate it to what we've seen in cyberspace as well. So, when we realized that cybersecurity was a necessity, and then we watched it promulgate its way through time over the last decade, we've seen how fast it's moved. Commercial drones are moving equally as fast from a capability, functionality, TTP (techniques, tactics, and procedures)—all of that is just moving so fast that it's, I think frankly in the private sector security space, we're asleep at the wheel. That's where we're at.

And I appreciate the background on that. And I like the analogy, the parallel, with cybersecurity. How all of a sudden, there started to be data breaches, then all of a sudden, 'Oh my gosh, this is a massive threat that we have to potentially deal with, and ongoing, and continue to deal with.' I see what you're getting at with the drone use. So, I guess to start, how are drones, or any unmanned system, being used right now in the private sector? I mean, obviously, I can just go on YouTube and see what's going on in Ukraine with it, but what's going on here with commercial use in the US?

Yes. So, the commercial market's moving really fast as well. I mean, the experimentation with these platforms has been ongoing for a decade. And we're seeing all different types of uses. We're seeing uses in medical delivery, we're seeing uses in commercial delivery. We're seeing uses in agriculture, we're seeing uses in inspection. This technology, which is really what drives my interest towards it, is you're only limited by your creativity and imagination on how you can actually use this technology for a specific use case. Recently, I think I put out on one of the social sites that Amazon has gone public and said, 'We're delivering via drone,' and it's constrained by a specific radius from the actual point of launch location. There are some things that are happening around that, but what's concerning is that instead of having a team approach to legislating how this technology should operate in society, we're seeing these one-offs. These companies going to the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) or other authorities and getting the approval to do things, whereas we don't really have a holistic solution on unmanned traffic management, which is called UTM. I think in the future, what we're going to see is unmanned aerial mobility, which is, I think, in terms of a pilotless taxi, things of that nature. I mean, we're headed in that direction very quickly. So, in the commercial space, you have all the positives of the technology that are driving deliveries or driving services, right? And then you have companies that have drone detection and monitoring capabilities that they sell to the market. Then you have companies that are out there, and they're selling 'drone as a security service' where drones are used in a security, like a patrolling, platform. And then, of course, where we're really lacking is in the counter-UAS (Unmanned Aerial System) capability, specifically in private sector airspace. Now, let's not look at that from a conflict zone or a war zone perspective, because all capabilities are capable of actually operating in those environments. But in the private sector, we have a very complicated airspace. So, really, doing the work from a public-private partnership, I think, needs to take shape so that the technology can assimilate into society where it's successful and beneficial. Whereas right now, we don't have—and I think it's probably in the security space public knowledge—a counter-UAS solution that actually can be utilized at a private sector event.

And so, with kind of everything that you talk about, it seems like a big issue with all of this right now, too, is C2 (command and control), legal requirements, and administrative. All of the stuff like you just said, if I have a company, I can go out and get approval to fly something from the FAA. But what does that mean in terms of local policy, or what I can and cannot do? Privacy issues? There's an ethical issue. Like you just said, the big issue is there's no system in place, really. There is no process. And with that, those are the things that scare me because there are so many seams and gaps in there for someone to exploit for bad purposes. So, you have the obvious issue with some of the stuff where, okay, I order a package from Amazon, it gets delivered to my yard, but then it crashes and hits my kid or something like that. Those safety issues are obvious and they're concerning. But the lack of this command and control over everything, and the lack of oversight, creates opportunities for people that want to take advantage of that. Greg, I know you're not in a long (discussion), and I want to throw to you before we go any farther.

No. I like your perspective, Brian, because you're saying accidentally and incidentally, there are a whole bunch of things that haven't been addressed yet. We're rolling out the technology. Yes, I would say let's take a giant evolutionary step back because we've got Bill on the call. And I will tell you the two recent comments—and one so fresh it's still got the paint drying on it—comments that Bill has made. The two in print that I like most, now, because you're a very prolific writer and I like reading your stuff, is one: "As Security Professionals, we must stay vigilant with emerging technology and proactive in our approach to overall program development." Love that. That's an OP (operations) size, exactly Brian's fear. I think the second part of that, and it's from a different publication: "Current conflict has only made things worse by accelerating hostile capability in the conflict zone." But I would add the one that you said very recently, a meeting this morning: "This conflict has pushed this technology light years." So, I would say think back to when we all got our feet wet in Iraq. I distinctly remember going after terrorists and insurgents that were using UXO (unexploded ordnance) for IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and probably a tripwire technology. I remember leaving Iraq and thinking, 'Oh my gosh, they're using garage door openers and motion lights and different servos and things that I had never seen before,' and so I had to spin up on that. I remember getting to Afghanistan and saying, 'Okay, well, at least they're a little behind the curve, but they're learning. They haven't had a vehicle-born sniper platform yet.' And all the people I was operating with on the Afghan side didn't even have a radio; they had a radio per group, and the radio was outmoded, basically Russian technology. I remember coming back to Afghanistan a few months later and everybody I was operating with had a Roshan (mobile phone). Everybody had an AK (AK-47 assault rifle) with a folding stock and some cool AimPoint-style sight on it. The problem I see, what keeps me up at night, is it's going so fast, and because there are no controls, there's nobody to say, 'Hey, need you to stop at the next station and check on compliance. We need you to stop at the next station, pull over, and tell us what your intent is.' So, I think my question parallels what Brian is talking about: that unregulated—and now I sound all of a sudden like a socialist—but unregulated conduct in this realm can only prove to be dangerous and hazardous. Bill, would you agree with me? Am I close on that one?

Yes, it's a great analogy. So, let's talk about what has happened, right? So, the federal government is not—I don't think we're sitting on our hands, right? Back a year and a half, two years ago, the FAA came out with a regulation or a directive saying that all drones starting in September of 2023 will have a digital license plate. Okay, that was like one of the first steps we saw in this evolution to UTM, really is what we're talking about. I think what they're doing is the building block to unmanned traffic management. When you think of airspace management, the FAA really monitors and controls everything above 400 feet. But everything below 400 feet, it's game on. That's where drones normally, these commercial drones, normally fly. And remember, what we're focusing on in this talk is not a military-grade drone platform. We're talking about those platforms we can simply go on a website and buy with one click and our credit card. So, that's the type of technology that will exist in this ecosystem of 400 feet and below, probably around 200 to 400 feet. What I call the 'Drone Super Highway,' which is what we're seeing sort of evolve. Someday we'll be walking down the street, and there'll just be these platforms moving over our heads, delivering goods and services, and with a lot of positive aspects. So, going back to what the federal government has been doing, we start with the FAA. Then the current administration came out with the National Action Plan that's centered around drones. And then the U.S. Chamber of Commerce countered the National Action Plan with a formal letter that said, 'Here's where we're at.' But really, my biggest concern is that I'm not a futurist. I'm just thinking through this from a security lens: where the public gathers is where we're vulnerable. And so what we have to do is we have to really get those authorities worked out through a public-private partnership that gives those business owners and those authorities that host large public gatherings—football games, parades, concerts—gives them the capability to execute a counter-UAS plan if they think it's necessary. This is all about really setting your concentric circles around your event, setting those trip—I think I call them 'indications and warnings.' If a drone is entering a specific part of your airspace, like the infield of a baseball game, there should be some ability for that business to take some action so that it not only protects the game itself, the players, but the public. There are technologies available that do that. What you'll see in conflict zones: there's a kinetic option, which is always trying to shoot it out of the sky. There's a jamming option, which you're trying to take the signal away. But now there is a 'take control' option, which I think is probably the best solution for the private sector if the private sector is properly trained and certified on how to do that. Then we are mitigating our risk at these events. Remember, as a security professional in the last six years after retiring from the Army, I always tell my clients, 'We're never going to mitigate risk to 100%,' but we're going to mitigate it to a level that you're comfortable with, or you can manage. And that's what we have to do with this. We have to take this technology seriously when it comes to those types of scenarios.

And so that one, that's a lot to unpack, actually, in there in your example, especially like a Major League Baseball game, or some event in a city, outdoor concert, anything like that, on what they can and can't do. Which, obviously, this goes back into, which is finally starting to take hold more and more, but people realizing like, 'Look, security isn't just something, "Oh, we hired a security company to protect our building,"' or something. You can't—that's long gone. You have to integrate it into everything that you do from an operational standpoint and get everyone on board. I'd rather have 100 people in my organization just being a little bit more understanding or aware of what needs to happen for security than hiring 10 people that work an eight-hour shift or something, right?

You're right. That's why I talk about security as a program. And Greg mentioned it earlier in the podcast, but security programs are holistic, they're comprehensive, they're layered, right? That's a security program. A lot of businesses—and it's no fault to people that actually are in these positions, and they're trying to make decisions, because it's hard decisions—but a lot of people default to a technology as a security program. So, 'We're going to put a camera in, and that's our security.' Well, that's fine, but it's only a portion of your security program. Your program starts with a threat assessment. Every security program should start foundationally with a threat assessment. The threat assessment informs you on what your capital investment is from a technology purchasing perspective. So, if you're going to put in a video surveillance system, intrusion detection, access control, trusted access management, you're going to need to get that validation from your threat vulnerability risk assessment. Then, after you get your threat assessment done, your technology program set, then you start to think about operations, training, exercising, rehearsals—all the things that go into a 100% comprehensive security program. One of the things that is clearly lacking in today's security programs is the attention to drones as a threat to the security ecosystem, to the security and safety ecosystem. So, that's what I've been sort of trying to talk to people about is if you don't have drones in your program, you should start thinking about it, right? You should start thinking about how would you react from an operational perspective if a drone breaks your indications and warnings line of your inner geofence, which is really the area you want to protect. What do you do? What does your staff do? How do you function? How do you collaborate with local law enforcement and possibly federal law enforcement, or however that—an emergency and Hazmat and all the other things—medical, et cetera? So, all of that, and that is a security program in about two minutes of describing it. It's not a threat and vulnerability risk assessment, and we're moving on. It's not buying technology, and we're moving on. It's about this system that is constantly evolving, and it needs to be checked over and over again so that it stays fresh. Combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, you would see Army, Marine—any unit downrange—they were constantly refining their security position, their platform, their posture, because it's always changing, and they're always updating, and they were always collaborating. Current U.S. policy doesn't address how to protect large public gatherings in the private sector because it's just not a money maker for them. And the majority, if not all, large public gatherings are provided by private organizations. That's major sporting events, like Brian alluded to, the concerts, festivals. And those are our most vulnerable venues.

So, when we do a risk assessment, just like you do, we pay attention to those things. And, you know what? It's not unprecedented. In print, in film, you guys aren't old enough. I'm a film buff, a historian. Black Sunday, 1977, John Frankenheimer film. They wrote it around the Munich Massacre, but the real idea was, 'Co-opt the Goodyear blimp that flies over NFL games, putting enough projectile darts and an explosive package in it,' and flying it into the stadium. And when you think of that back then, everybody was like, 'Oh yeah, Black Sunday, it's a little far-fetched.' No, it's not. It's not only within the realm of the possible, but it's at your fingertips. If you go to the local Walmart, you can buy one, and nobody's checking your ID. Now, part two of that, Bill, you brought up a great point that I think some of our viewers and listeners might not fully appreciate. And that's, you can't just shoot a drone out of the sky, or shoot a robot, in a war zone. When you have these vast fields of rubble and people have defensive and protective equipment, maybe okay. But you still have to watch that because projectiles and bullets go some places. The other thing is that there's a person out there going, 'Just shut it down.' I've heard people say, 'Hey, just shut down that vehicle during a police pursuit.' That's all you need to do is have the ability to remotely shut it down. Well, now you have a 200-yard stopping distance with a 100-mile projectile that's now going wherever God, inertia, and physics and gravity are taking it, right? The idea here is, I love your idea about taking it over because even in those vehicles, you can imagine a state patrol or somebody having the ability to override based on the last six digits of the VIN, or whatever else that the policy would be, and being able to take command of that vehicle and bring it down safely. Because if you shoot it out of the sky, and if it's armed, it's going to land somewhere and either the shrapnel is going to kill you, or perhaps the explosive package. And we haven't even talked about CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear). We haven't even talked about nuclear, biological, or chemical attacks. So, so we're getting there, folks. And if you don't think that we've already got one foot into this, then you really need to rewind and read some of the stuff that Bill has been putting out. Sorry.

No, great, great point because really what we want to do with this podcast and with just the articles that we put effort into to write and publish, is awareness and then grassroots movement to actually say, 'Hey, look, we want, we want to do something about this. We want to think about it consciously.' What you're describing, Greg, is collateral damage, right? I mean, collateral damage. We're never going to be in a position where we use kinetic or jamming in the private sector, unless of course we're under the umbrella of Homeland Security and the SEER (Special Event Assessment Rating) events—the Special Event Assessment Ratings. They have SEER one through five. And in those events, there is federal law enforcement and other agencies that have authorities—remember, it goes back to authority to do something—to actually take action. And what that action is, it's dependent on the call on the ground there. But the point is, is that in the private sector, which you highlight, our primary events where people gather are not SEER events, right? A SEER event might be, as an example, a Super Bowl, right? Okay. But it's not going to be the Eagles concert that's happening on just any given day. So the point is, is how are we protecting our private sector when they're going to have fun, right? When they're going to these entertainment events, and they're expecting to have a good time and to enjoy the event. Our job in the security world is to set that bubble around that event and then mitigate the risk as best we can. So, what are—what are—there's like, I see a bunch of potential issues or hazards or roadblocks into something like this, right?

So let's say, let's use a major sporting event, just like a normal game, baseball game, football game, not the Super Bowl, not the World Series, just the—you know, there's how many baseball games every year? I mean, 161 per team. So, you know what I mean? Like, so, so you get a lot going on. But, you know, the idea is, is there's what are the legal, moral, and ethical dilemmas or considerations that I have to take into account, right? If I, a baseball team, and I've got the game going on, and, you know, I have my security stuff in place, I hire folks like you to come in and we get great technology, and we have to spend a lot of money, and just like, you know, the, the, it's always the seams and gaps where the enemies like to hide, the terrorist insurgents, whatever, the criminals like to hide those seams and gaps. So, now you're telling me I've got a drone? Like, what is it? You talk about a major seam or gap in my security. I mean, you can go anywhere, you can see anything. It's like, yeah, one, how do you plan for it? But, you know, you're talking about countering something like that with either taking it over or shooting it out of the sky. But whatever the mechanism is to do that, what are the legal, moral, and ethical considerations here? I mean, and someone operating a drone, what if it is a kid who really likes that baseball team? Their diehard fan, and they live a couple blocks away, and want to fly their drone over. I mean, you know, there's all these—we have to take into account what's the most likely situation, which I'm assuming it would be something like that, which is still a huge potential safety risk to everyone at the stadium, versus someone coming to do a deliberate attack, right? A deliberate attack is going to be different, and it's less likely than it is the kid flying the drone over wants to get some cool YouTube videos. So, I mean, what, what are those things that we have to take into account?

So, at this point, we don't know. We don't know if the drone is nefarious or not. That's the problem. That's one of the problems. Back in 2020, I wrote a piece for InfraGard, which you may be familiar with, but it was establishing this idea called the Drone Vulnerability Risk Assessment, which is the ground risk assessment. So, similar to a TVRA (Threat, Vulnerability, and Risk Assessment), but from a drone perspective. And I lay out in there about 10 points on, you know, and it was really just to put out to security professionals to say, 'Hey, check this out. If you're struggling with how do you, how do you insert drones into your security program, start here.' So, I just put some ideas together, put it out there. And then I actually posited a piece on drone emergency response planning. So, DVRA (Drone Vulnerability Risk Assessment) and drone emergency response planning were all in this one article through InfraGard. So, that went out in 2020. So, we're three years from now—three years ago. And basically, that's the foundation. So then, really, the next step is there are—I think there's probably, let me get this right—well, three legs to the stool. So, you do your assessment of what do you think your actual drone threat is. I mean, and everyone's assessment is going to be different. Then the second piece is, is you want to test out a drone detection and monitoring technology on your facility. So, you want to actually do some reconnaissance of your airspace in, let's say, a 30-day window, and then you can get some pattern analysis of actually what type of drones are flying over your property. And I will guarantee you, you'll be surprised at how many drones are actually flying over your property. And so, that's the second step. The third step is actually developing your drone emergency response plan, and then how you're going to train the staff to react, and how you're going to collaborate and integrate with first responders, right? So, you're really again, it's another smaller version of a security program, but based around the drone technology. So, drone vulnerability risk assessment, drone detection and monitoring pattern—pattern of analysis, I guess you would call it a reconnaissance of your airspace—and then a drone emergency response plan that is inserted into your program. At that point, the fourth leg, and I'll call it instead of a stool, a chair now—the chair is, you need to tabletop exercise various scenarios centered around a drone in your airspace. Now, how do you do that? Well, what I would do is, is I would, if I was securing a public event, I would set some concentric circles around that event, and I would have an outer perimeter working all the way into an inner perimeter. That outer perimeter would be my first geofence. It would be my first indications and warnings line where a drone detection and monitoring capability sees a drone. So, let's say a drone is flying towards the event, it crosses that line, we now have indications there's a drone in the airspace. Well, as you get closer to actually the main event, you have a line in there that you're, you're not going to allow, or you don't want the drone to go through. That would be your inner geofence. And if you have that inner geofence set and a drone looks like it's moving into that space, then you would want a certified team of counter-UAS professionals on your staff that could take control and land that drone safely. Now, you don't know if the drone has any payload on it, so you have to land it in an area that can be inspected for HazMat and ordnance. Now, if it's just like you said, Brian, some person that's really interested in the game and they want to get video, that's easy. The drone lands, the payload is inspected, then the drone can be returned to the owner, or whatever they want to do at that point. But there's also ability now, through drone detection and monitoring, where you can geolocate the actual operator. So, wherever the operator is flying from, you can, you can know those coordinates. And you could, one TTP, or technique, tactic, or procedure, would be you're going to launch a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) or a law enforcement element to that location to have the drone brought back by the operator if it's, if it's just recreational use that they want to see the Eagles playing live, or something. I like the Eagles, man. Right? So, that to me, describes, I think, what you're asking.

Yes, it does. And what you gave is, 'These are all the considerations.' And so it's, which is a lot, you know what I mean? To really counter this or stay on top of it, you just provided with us, 'Okay, now I need a team. Now I need to have this technology. Now they need to be trained in that technology. I have to develop my own standard operating procedures on how we're going to handle this. I probably have to do some coordination myself because there might not be a lot out there right now yet with my local police agency or whoever.' So, that, and this is why all of those things are why something like this scares me, right? So, like cyber attacks, we know they're going to happen. There's protocols we can put in place, we can minimize stuff, but we have policies and procedures. Now we can train our people, 'Hey, this is why you don't stick a thumb drive in the computer,' you don't do this, or whatever the policy and procedure is. With this new area right now, a lot of that hasn't been built yet. And when those things haven't been built yet, it's two things. One, if you're going, if you're trying to counter this and trying to get ahead of it, it's actually good because you get to write the plan, and you get to figure out what works best for you, and then you get to help implement that plan. So, if you're trying to get ahead of it, it's actually more advantageous to do it the sooner the better. But then, if I'm going to do some harm, or I have some nefarious intent, man, I know this is a great way just to tie up resources. I mean, just knowing all of this, I can just go to one of these events and start flying a drone around just to tie up all your security resources. And that might not actually be the issue. And I don't want to give too many ideas, but there's plenty out there. But that's the whole thing. I have this another layer, and what else needs to be done from a policy level? And can I own the airspace above my house, and then lease it to Amazon, or something?

You know, what I think I advocate for is just this. I'm really advocating for this 'take control' capability. But when you look at a conflict zone, they're using every capability in a layered, in a layered approach. They're using kinetic, they're using take control, they're using jamming. They're using different types of microwave types of systems, things that are already out in the public knowledge. But the point is, is that you can't do that in private sector. You can't do that in airspace where airplanes are flying, helicopters are flying. Where there's public transiting in airspace, that's the dangers, right? That's why this whole idea of UTM, it's not only super complicated, and it's not an easy solution, but it, we need to get our minds around it and find out or figure out how to do it right properly. The regulation that's going into effect, I think in September of 2023, for all drones to have the digital license plate, is great. It's a great first effort, but it doesn't account for all the drones that are already in the airspace, right? 6,000 that are being pushed out into Ukraine, China being the biggest supplier of armed drones, tens of thousands that are already out there. You're exactly right. And the street modifications, look, we all know that once a person understands how to work the RF capability, next thing they're doing is going, 'Hey, how can I build one in my yard?' I mean, I'll make it bigger, I'll make it smaller. I'll get through a lawn chair, and I'll be flying that son of a gun.

I would suggest that everybody watch 1984 Runaway with Tom Selleck. Do you remember that with the balloon one where he shoots, you know, it's the one with the little drone spiders or robots are following around, and the drones, and they have the smart bullets and stuff. So, look, Philip K. Dick wasn't so far off on this. But we had to learn how to deal with cellular telephones. We had to learn how to deal with all of the advent of this new technology. This is nothing out of the ordinary. We're not talking about a space-time continuum, we're talking about something we can control if we jump on it. We're early adopters of regulation.

Yeah, I agree. Well, I mean, great conversation. Yes. I guess I would only, I would end with the question, 'Is how, how can I own airspace and lease it to Amazon for, and become a millionaire?' I don't know.

I don't know. Well, I I think, New York City has that already figured out. I know that the buildings in New York actually do own the airspace above their building. So, I don't know how that's done. You could probably Google it.

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure someone's already cornered the market on that one. So, but instead of 'Adopt a Highway' program, it's going to be, 'I own this now,' right? The skyway.

What I'm grateful to you guys is just to have the platform to talk about this. So, I appreciate the thoughtful questions and conversation because, again, in my view, I just want to keep the conversation going. I want people to think about this in more depth. I want to see a really vibrant public-private partnership when it comes to the platforms on how we think about our private sector public gatherings. Where our children go to concerts, where our families go to see ball games, or even to attend a parade, or whatever it may be. So, I think, I think that's, that's the most important thing. I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep writing about it. I'm going to keep pushing out. In fact, I have an article coming out, or it's out now, it came out about 10 minutes ago, in SIA (Security Industry Association) security organization. And, we're—I'm talking more about this topic and promulgating, and again, for more discussion. Again, for your audience and for anyone that sees this, I don't claim to be the expert. I just, I'm just paying attention and I'm trying to just bring awareness and from a security perspective. And again, I'm not really focused on the federal side. I'm not focused on conflict zones. I mean, we all have, we have plenty of big companies that are taking that on, right? What are we doing in the private sector? What are we going to do to set our security professionals up for success so they can mitigate risk now?

And, Colonel, you're a wildly intellectual person when it comes to a variety of topics, specifically laser-focused on these. Brian and I are a couple of street kids. We have good intentions, and we want to get as much basic information out to everybody as possible, so they can do their homework, so they can learn more. So, this is a perfect forum for those type of discussions. I like it when it's high-brow, you're really tasking us to turn on the brain juice and think about those. And if we can motivate one other person—look, you've got a list of intellectual friends, we know some of them—and they're really high-brow thinkers. If we can activate them and we can activate the grassroots support, hey, this is, this is surmountable. This is not something that's insurmountable.

Yeah, I agree. And I would say to anyone that sees the podcast, you can go to my LinkedIn profile. Everything I've written about, I mean, literally, I write in two, two to four minutes, yeah, two to four-minute reads. So, they're super digestible. You can digest them pretty quickly. But they're all, they're all posted on there. Everything is not, everything's free, you know, it's all just available to go through and think about. I know that if I was in a position where I was running security for a hospital or a stadium or a concert, I would want to know as much or have as much information in my toolkit that I could have so I could set the staff up to operate because at the end of the day, what we're trying to do is operate from a safety and security perspective. So, the piece I would probably end on is, anything you do in this, in this world of security, you've got to train, rehearse, and exercise all the time. You've got to throw in these once a month exercises, your yearly exercises where you bring in all your law enforcement and your first responders, and you collaborate. I tell, this is an old saying, it's not invented by me, but you don't want to meet your first responder on the day of an event, right? And so, that's, that's something that is built into that tail end of your program. And the program is circular, right? So, you also want to revisit your threat and vulnerability risk assessment probably once a year, or maybe every six months, because the threat environment changes. Drones are only the current technology. What's the next technology? We don't know yet. I mean, we don't know what it's going to be, but we do know that this, this technology, these platforms are—are, I think a military revolution—are going to change society, right?

I completely agree. And we appreciate you coming on and sharing all this. And then to anyone listening, I'm going to put all the links to some of the articles that I use with the questions on there, and as well as your LinkedIn link to your profile. That'll all be in the episode details. So, you can click on there, learn more about Bill, take a look at what you read. Like you said, I love it too, what you post. It's like these quick three-minute reads or something where it's just, 'Okay, damn, I didn't think of that. That's a great point.' And that's perfect, right? Those are the thinking points we need. And for those a lot of folks who listen to this, too, are in that sort of operational to strategic-level security mindset. And so, them hearing this, I know they're going to go, 'You know what? Maybe, maybe I should either reach out to Bill, or find out, add something. I got to, this is something I need to add.' And it is, and there's always something to add. Like you said, we don't know what that next thing is. But we know where it's at right now with drone technology. We know where it's likely headed. And now is the time because we're, it's not complete adoption yet. We don't have it fully integrated yet, but it's going there. So, the sooner you get on board with it, the sooner you put some protocols and procedures in place, the easier those, those problems when they come up, you'll be able to mitigate them completely sometimes, or at least be accounted for them with whatever your policies and procedures are. And that's all you, I mean, really, that's all you can do. And that's it. There's no, there's no, getting rid of the threat, it's just, that's not a thing. So, so as long as it's something that I can account for and I can move out forward with it, and everyone can be confident about the decisions they make. So, that's, that's the point of it, too. So, on that, unless you guys have anything else to add, some final words.

I would say one quick thing. Remember, don't think this doesn't apply to you if you're having a gender reveal party, if you're having a wedding, if you're having some sort of event like that. I would add a line right down at the bottom. If you've got like alcohol security, add 'drone.' Those are the type of things that you got to think about now. Someone's going to use a drone for their gender reveal thing, and it's going to start out there blowing off their leg or starting off the explosion, starting with fire. Natural progression. If you're going to consider it, you might as well consider this.

Alright. Well, yeah, and again, we got the New Year off to a great start. Happy New Year to you guys and everyone listening. Hope you have a great, healthy 2023.

Well, we appreciate it. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thanks for coming on, Bill. And don't forget that training changes behavior.